I heard Richard Dawkins mention in a univeristy speech that he thinks there is a relation between high IQ's and not believing in religion.

Does anyone know if more extensive tests and research has been carried out to prove this or to investigate this claim in more detail?

Also would be interested to hear peoples view on this and why they think there could be a conection between intelligence and not believing in religous dogma?

Michael,
- May I tell you a story? - Please.
For generations, men of my family have been rabbis.
In Israel, before that in Europe.
It was to be my calling. I was quite a prodigy.
The pride of my yeshiva.
The elders said I had a 40-year-old's understanding...
of the midrash by the time I was 12 .
But by the time I was 14
I knew I could never be a rabbi.
Why not?
Because for all I understood of the Talmud,
I never saw God there.
- You couldn't lie to yourself. - I tried.
Tried like crazy.
I mean, people were counting on me.
But yours is a respectable profession.
Not to my family.
My parents were destroyed, devastated by my decision.
My father sent me away to New York...
to live with distant cousins.
Eventually, l... I found my place,
my life's work.
What then?
I immersed myself fully, I studied the minutiae,
I learned everything I could about the law.
I mean, I felt deeply inside that it was what I was born to do.
- And did your parents get over it? - No.
I always hoped that I would find...
some way to change their minds, but...
They were inconsolable.
My father never spoke to me again.
If you had to do it all over again,
would you make the same choices?
What choice?
The last thing I took away from the yeshiva is this...
We can't run from who we are.
Our destiny chooses us.

Here's some input regarding your question:

1. http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/0...nce/index.html

(The original study: http://spq.sagepub.com/content/early...61602.abstract)

2. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ve-in-God.html

(The original study: http://dailycow.org/system/files/article_0.pdf)

correlation? yes

/thread

It seems obviously true to me. I'd be interested to know if the correlation is weaker in "atheist countries". Anyone know?

Can you give examples of "atheist countries"? Scandinavians come to my mind, but I can't really think about others (although Europe in general is a lot more "atheistic", compared to Asia, Africa and the two Americas, likely compared to Australia as well, but I'm not sure).

It makes sense that most atheists have high IQs.

For most atheists I've encountered, God has been reduced to merely a "concept" rather than a reality. Almost by definition, this is an exclusively intellectual exercise which requires a high IQ.

This is the wrong corellation to be focusing on.

Instead of evaluating IQ try focusing on SQ (Spiritual Quotient).

Most intellectuals seem to focus on knowledge and intellectual exercises.

But knowledge isn't wisdom.

True, but nor is jibberish and propaganda.

A concentration on IQ alone with no attention to SQ equals a large disparity between knowledge and wisdom.

While I don't adhere to the concept of SQ as it's stated (spiritual is probably a misnomer here), and don't think that it equals the disparity between knowledge and wisdom, there most certainly is a variable that has some kind of relationship (negatively correlated, at least) in this disparity which happens to be manifested in many individuals.

Statements like this help me know the answer.....lol

Best to let these comments bounce off of you JoeyD.

Universalism seems to answer every major argument, contradiction and objection raised by atheism but there is no answer to their anger. That is something they have to resolve for themselves.

Evolution may be the only argument not resolved but the future will handle that.

The more time I spend reading Jones the less I feel I have to debate things. Christianity has a really long chain of scriptures and historical events to explain and that God's fire is a purifying fire not a punishing one explains it best.

The treasure trove of his books is here:
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/list.cfm

and he has more under his "New Items" link

Lol. SQ is a pseudo-scientific New Age concept that has nothing to do with experimental psychology. I know IQ has a lot of problems, as well as the very definition of 'intelligence', but that doesn't mean we should resort to nonsensical terms (behind which there is nothing real) in attempts to easily fill the scientific gaps.

By the way, the IQ - Atheism correlation isn't the most interesting one IMO. I much more like the negative correlation between Education - Religiousness.

http://wings.buffalo.edu/hced-center...es/Glaeser.pdf
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3511296
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1384909

Its pseudo because all the toughest things in the world to unravel are pseudo and science has the devil of a time quantifying things in mixed forms.

That doesn't give you permission to reject things because you can't explain them. Your bias only makes you think it does.

Has there ever been a thread discussing Chris Langan in RGT? I was thinking of starting one.

IQ?:



A quote:

'Asked about creationism, Langan has said:
I believe in the theory of evolution, but I believe as well in the allegorical truth of creation theory. In other words, I believe that evolution, including the principle of natural selection, is one of the tools used by God to create mankind. Mankind is then a participant in the creation of the universe itself, so that we have a closed loop. I believe that there is a level on which science and religious metaphor are mutually compatible.[14]'

I cannot believe this subject is being debated again. We really need some new subjects in this forum.

A true statement with an interesting addendum. Possibly Bunny's point is that intellectual positions contrary to a substantial majority tend to be held by those with above average intelligence.

My gut reaction is to agree with this. SQ sounds like something made up by stupid people.

Possibly the most moronic comment itt. I would offer the author the opportunity to claim a grammatical error and reword it.

There is a slight bias to higher IQ for atheists, but causality is a hard thing to nail down. Also, the majority of atheists have an IQ close to average or below average. That's why the average IQ is only slightly shifted to the positive.

That's not an original notion, by the way, not to take away from Langan's potential or intellect.

Intellectual ability can be directly measured. How would you go about measuring SQ? If you believe in ghosts, spirits, and fairies does that give you a high SQ? Or does a high SQ only result if one believes in the god you happen to believe in?

I agree mainly because I don't think it's even clear exactly what IQ measures (or that it's an accurate factor of all kinds of intelligence). It is a fact that there are some very intelligent theists.

I personally wonder if it has more to do with intelligence + education = higher likelihood of atheism. Intelligent people without access to higher education or exposure to the sciences are more apt to remain theists. That said, I do think the more intelligent uneducated person is more likely to break through much repeated myths and become skeptical of invisible beings on their own.

No, science doesn't reject tough notions. On the contrary, scientists love challenges. What scientists reject are assertions made without evidence.

Scientists love mysteries. SQ is just not one of them.

You didn't say anything about the negative correlation between education and religiousness.

The acceptence of the multiverse or landscape model is evidence that scientist do accept assertions without evidence. It became a necessity once it was apparent that the explaination of why we are here lies outside the observable universe.

I think you're either misusing the term 'acceptance' or misinterpreting what scientists have been saying about the multiverse or landscape models.

Just putting theories forth is not 'accepting assertions'.

Pretty much (though more a guess than a point). I don't value iq at all, really so I haven't really thought about it much. One of my first thoughts was that stupid people will be more likely to just accept what they're told by people they trust as being true. Having said that, I could see an argument for the correlation being stronger in atheist countries, so i'm a little curious. I don't recall the iq fans posting discussion/research around the strength of the correlation vs th religiosity of the country.

I have previously claimed Australia to be a strongly atheist country. Recently I have read things which are changing that view though. My intuitions are no doubt skewed heavily by the social circles I move in. I would expect any research (if it exists) would define some kind of measure for religiosity - then see if there's any correlation between that measure and the iq-theism correlation.