We just dont know.

And where did the creator come from, who created him?

Regardless of your theory on creation, there will always be the outstanding philosophical question of, "how can there be nothing?" or "How can something come from nothing?"

It truly is perplexing....

I think there are some black hole related and outer universe theories which attempt to explain, but they are kind of out there.

Until recently we thought the atom was the smallest thing in the universe. At one point we thought the earth was the center of everything. all the "smart" people will continually be humbled with new discoveries. WE, YOU, know nothing except you are alive and you will die.

Where we you before you were born, who were you, what were you? You dont know. Nothing, something? Some believe in past lives, some don't... some think a monkey is our uncle. Where will you go when you die? Nowhere, somewhere? Can you answer these questions? I can't. At the center of the questions that truly scare and amaze us is that we simply cannot explain our existence. We do not know why or how we came to be or what will happen to us when we die.

The true nature of our reality is not known unless you can answer the basic questions of life, like why are we here? What happens to me when us when we die? If you think the big bang is the explanation, where did the matter come from?

The scoffers and mockers do nothing to add to the conversation but only take, destroy and desolve. Don't listen to the haters if you think there is something more as I do then believe. I find it interesting that the scoffers take as much time as they do to take down those who believe. I don't see thread after thread from believers who say "how can anyone in their right mind not believe in a higher power or creator?" The Christian will not insult you or should not for your beliefs if you believe your great uncle was an ape and when you die there is nothing.

Good answer


You are free to think whatever you want. But if, as you say, you cant answer these questions, then why do you think there is something more? You are saying, theres no answer, so Im just going to make stuff up, basically

I don't know what's meant by a "general theist" but I believe I was born a believer though I was rather agnostic in my actions for quite a while. I always as far back into childhood as I can remember was pro-God in my outlook and my early childhood is about as far from normal theist as you can get. We never went to church and it's rather remarkable I'm as strong a theist as I am today.

I know this is contrary to atheist dogma that no one is born a believer but I believe I was born one and I think there's recent research out by McCauley and Barrett confirming some people are born believers though I haven't gotten to read more than an article or two on Justin Barrett's research.

Regarding voids, it's the human condition for different emotional states to start people questioning the meaning of their existence.

People can allege emotional superiority but there's no way to validate it or tell if someone didn't do any more than reach a personal compromise. Anybody can claim emotional strength or superiority. Proving it is another matter.

Christian Existentialism
Existentialist Thought & Christian Beliefs
http://atheism.about.com/od/typesofe.../christian.htm

Joeco,

Yes, of course there is still much we do not know. But with the help of technology, we know enough to know what we don't know, and safely draw some cold hard conclusions about what we do know. The scientific method today should not even be compared to the one which told us the world was flat. I'm not sure that can even be considered science, as much as an assumption....

Evolution may still be a theory, but it is far and away the best damn explanation of how we came to be. In fact, I think evolution is considered stronger than a theory in most circles given the uncanny amount of evidence, and lack of any type of hole that I'm aware of. We were wrong about the atom, (and could be wrong about evolution, for argument sake) but the processes which allowed us to get the that point were correct, and eventually that path lead us to further understanding.

Of course I do not know for sure that there is no creator, no one does. But I am quite certain the answers were not divulged 2000 years ago and written in a book. I am more anti-religion than anti-God. Depending on your def'n of God, I may agree with it. But no religion in the world has the answer, and our best chance at discovery is the scientific method.

I'd like to hear your theories....How do you think we came to be what we are today? Do you have specific religious beliefs, or just feel there is a creator? Do you find any validity in modern physics?

By general theist, I mean someone who believes there is a higher power, but doesn't know exactly what it is. From what I know, you take the Bible quite literally.

Would you agree that the def'n of Religion is to explain the unexplainable?

Everyone has a void which wants to know, "why are we here", "what's our purpose". We feel there must be a reason, or want there to be cause it's kind of depressing to think we are just here, nothing more. People need to believe in something, and the concept of God arose.

Personally, I'm just thrilled to exist. I find the Universe beautiful and amazing and don't need to feel there is someone out there looking down on me. I've always existed and always will, in a sense, since matter and energy is never created or destroyed. You have chosen God, I have chosen to search for "truth" which seems more likely to be the reality, imo.

Literal? I'm quasi literal...who isn't? You have to be partially literal to even post coherently.

But since I'm undecided but capable of considering theistic evolution, creationism and ID all at the same time I would say I'm not strictly literal. To entertain any theistic evolutionary ideas will usually involve some allegorizing of the text. Many earlier Christian generations weren't as literal as today's.

I don't accept religion as unexplainable because I believe the purpose of revealed religion is to explain things as much as possible.

these threads get mighty long...shocker everyone has something to say about religion!

If we didn't die, our concept of morality and religion probably be much different...

Isn't "theistic evolution" kind of an oxymoron?

Weren't the earlier Christians much more literal than today's?

The Bible told us God created the Earth in 6 days, and made the first woman out of Adam's rib. Was this an attempt to explain things as much as possible?

Oops. Looks like the OP is running bad and is almost busto. See what happens when you start threads like this!

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/11...busto-1158220/

gl fella

OP, no one has the remotest clue of where anything came from, where we are, whats going on etc, etc.

So anythings possible, right, so why not a god?
Seems like as good a theory as any other!

Care to enlighten us, with your explanation.

If anything is possible, then that is as fine a theory as anything else. It's a shame, though, that most religions only allow for their god, not just "a" god. The arrogance of people saying that they know their god is the one and only true god is beyond comprehension to me.

To say "no one has the remotest clue of where anything came from..." is laughable, though.

+100

[QUOTE=Skilo885;31652820]If anything is possible, then that is as fine a theory as anything else. It's a shame, though, that most religions only allow for their god, not just "a" god. The arrogance of people saying that they know their god is the one and only true god is beyond comprehension to me.

To say "no one has the remotest clue of where anything came from..." is laughable, though.[/QUOTE]

So all matter in the universe, was created from nothing in the big bang?
Yeah ok, that sounds reasonable?
Does not really get us anywhere though, as I said we have no clue what the big picture is.

[QUOTE=rayfox111;31931454] I'm not sure you understand what the Big Bang is.

And what do you mean by "...have no clue what the big picture is."? The big picture of what?

Please, if you reply to that post, fix the quoting! It's really easy to do, and not doing so will just perpetuate this error forever.

Sorry, was more interested in the content of the post rather than the grammar

OP, let's dig up and ask Einstein. I think he was Deist (correct me if I'm wrong).

Okay, 3 answers for above 3 questions: 1. God said: Divine justice is inscrutable. 2. Instinct. 3. Yes...also it makes them feel above other people. 4. You would have to believe that this is life, perhaps it's just a regimented culture trying to claim it is life.

Yes, because Einstein is the all-seeing eye, and couldn't possibly be incorrect about anything!!!!

Kinda like.. erm, God?

Its is actually close minded and selfish to think there is a god. The universe is never ending right, it goes on and on. With unending amount of planets out there. Some obviously (by the laws of averages) have life on them. What do these aliens believe created the universe, and we think OUR god created everything, we actually believe what we can only assume? With zero proof. The universe is so vast the human mind cannot comprehend the sheer size of it. Also the human mind cannot accept its own death, and that is why we come up with this "ideal" of something after death. When in fact, we are the same as flies, monkeys and elephants. They dont do go "heaven" they just die. and when we die, we die just like the animals.
The only reason we get this "ticket" into heaven is because we have the intelligence to think we do. Its pathetic.

Thank you for a good laugh. This was one of the most idiotic posts I have seen on this forum in awhile.

Presumably your opening statement which you will now defend.

Not necessarily. The universe could very well be closed.

I assume you meant "infinite". Again, not necessarily true but I would concede that there is a very large number of planets "out there".

The "law of averages"? Not a good choice. Also, I think you meant "intelligent life".


Not quite coherent, but I think I know what you were struggling to say.

In answer, perhaps those aliens think that God created the universe. In fact, it would not be surprising if they did, although they would speak a different language and use a different word. But so what if they did? The concept of a creator could well be universal even if the details of the description of the creator varied.

This statement applies to many beliefs, including those expressed by you in most of your post.

Clearly we do not know exactly how vast it is. Comprehension is an issue of individual capability to comprehend, although I will concede that is probably limited in your case.

If this were reworded to be a proposition rather than a declaration, it would have been the one possibly correct thought in your entire post.


If you are going to criticize positions held without proof you should refrain from asserting them, at least for the duration of the post.

Not much to say about that. Without intelligence, the issue of heaven would never be discussed so this statement really has no content.


Ironically, this sums up your post perfectly.

The bottom line for you is that you need to identify a person much smarter than you and simply believe whatever they believe. I assure you there are both theists and atheists who meet that test, so you should have no problem in either case. You simply do not have the intellectual capacity to even summarize the issues accurately, let alone formulate a solution.

Grunching
Saw the thread title, this article speaks specifically to the OP's question but doesn't account for intelligence just numbers. (US)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062300818.html

Was a bit surprised the numbers were as high as they.

Thanks for the ENGLISH lesson RLK, however, if i wanted to know how to use words into a certain order that you would find pleasing, i would use a dictionary. As your thoughts on my idea of a so called god and the universe mean **** all to me, that doesnt matter.
You didnt, however, answer anything i pointed out. Proving you are small minded in your primitive beliefs of such an aformentioned "god".
GL spending your life worshipping something pointless like the sun.