My dog is definitely gay. And not just that but he likes stuffed animals, arms, chairs, AND pillows.

I'm saying we do the same things that animals do because we are animals. Not because satan corrupted us and is making all this evil in the world.

the verses that I posted pretty clearly look to me like it's saying animals go to heaven.

And the verse you ended with doesn't tell me what the difference between a soul and a spirit is, or even if there is one. I'm still pretty confused imo.

Yes, there are many differences between plants and animals. And even though you and I are both humans, there are many differences between us.

There are also many similarities between plants and animals. And obviously many similarities between you and I.

What is your point, though? Do you think that the difference between plant and animal are etched into the fabric of the universe? Because to me, it is just a grouping system that humans have come up with for convenience, and there is no intrinsic meaning in the distinction.

Well, in the context of the discussion and the post I quoted, the difference between plants and animals is huge and relevant. The whole nervous system and all, and the ability to think and act. This is not arbitrary, except for maybe the lowest orders of animals. And so, asking if grass goes to heaven is a clear no and somewhat nonsensical while asking if dogs go to heaven is worthy of a discussion.

winner winner pasta dinner

Even though OP quoted Bible verses, I'm not responding on behalf of Christianity, but the broad spectrum of theism. We were created to be higher and better than animals. We were created to be the most intelligent creature on Earth, and so we are the most responsible. It's erroneous to assign morality to animals, let alone compare "animal morality" with "human morality." You cannot make that comparison on the simple ground that we have higher cognitive facilities. A creature cannot be said to have morals if they do not possess the intelligence capable of comprehending the concept of morality.

We weren't created to be higher or better than animals. We've evolved to be more intelligent animals, but that in no way makes us better than other animals. The belief that "we are better than animals" is pretty destructive. It leads to complete disregard for other animal habitats.

What is erroneous is thinking of humans as not being animals, not assigning morality to animals.

I come back to the Bonobo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#...haracteristics


Here's an interesting video of an alpha female Bonobo in captivity defending the dead body of a new group member.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CkSy6mw3Og

Notice how the other Bonobos seem to be paying their respects and even swat away flies. And of course refuse to let the handlers remove the body. This is a clear display of altruism.

You're reading past me. Slow down and read carefully. Most intelligent = better. Whatever your belief (creation/macro evolution) humans are the most important species on this planet. Also, I see where you've got the idea that thinking that "humans are better" than animals is destructive. Again, you read past me and ignored the part where I said that being the most intelligent species means we are the most responsible. Having hubris because we're #1 and ill-treating all other animals and life forms as a result is neither responsible, nor smart.

I'll redirect you to what I said earlier:

You're confusing the socializing of animals for displays of morality. Altruism and selfishness, for example, are not moral issues, and they can be explained through evolution. An animal may appear to act selfless and altruistic, but that's an evolutionary expression of behavior. If they do something like share food, it's not because they have grandiose notions about "protecting the weak" or "sharing is caring." To them these acts simply further the unit cohesion as a matter of course.

In short the less intelligent animal cannot see past their own primal instincts.

Yes they can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mv8r...eature=related

I'm sorry I should have linked paper #6 rather than 22:

http://becomingone.org/nm/nm6.htm

There is a difference between the words for soul and spirit in the bible and this article explains it.

Not really, but based on what you just said you should change your views on humans and their religious nature.

The human world is also filled with things like murder, cannibalism, rape, and a host of other things that we feel are morally detestable. And what's utterly AMAZING is that just like homosexuality, these things happen at roughly the same rate among "higher" animals in their kingdom.

Luckily people from 2000 years ago didn't have access to this information, otherwise they could have changed their story and I wouldn't have been able to make such a strong case against Christianity 2000 years later.

So only spirits go to heaven, souls do not. But both man and animals have souls, but only man has a spirit.

Why don't animals have spirits as well?

They didn't evolve enough.

I don't know the answer to your question.

I think the bible is silent on it as I don't recall any verses on animals and spirit just animals and soul.

Evolution isn't a scale.

Or done.