Estimates of the population of Muslims in the world vary greatly, I've taken 20% which seems to be somewhere in the middle of estimates.

Muslims also own only 2 out of 537 nobel prizes ever given out. Also, this number of 0.37% is somewhat generous, since 1 of the 2 prizes given to Muslims was in economics.

Why?

I'll say what I think, then I'd like theists' explanations.

Baghdad was the middle of the intellectual, scientific, mathematical world during 800-1100.

This period of great intellectual growth in Baghdad isn't traceable to Islam. It's not traceable to any philosophy that sprouted, or is in any way related to Islam. It came about because during this time there was a great amount of tolerance in Baghdad. Even non-believers were allowed to share a conversation with members of all other faiths during this period in this area. This period is traceable to tolerance and scientific thinking, if anything. Not Islam.

During 800-1100 there were many many books translated into Arabic on a massive scale. The scale with which books and literature were translated into Arabic since this time has not been seen again, despite rapid population growth.

Al-Ghazali came along in 1058-1111 and proposed a philosophy that mathematics is the work of the devil. This is one example of other philosophies hurtful to progression that cropped up.

Thinking about the natural world soon changed. Islamic revelation replaced investigation. Fantasy replaced reality.

What discoveries, vaccines, cures, theories could have been discovered in this community since this era, but did not?

Never again can any religious person claim that religion does no harm. This situation alone has likely robbed the world of several discoveries, cures, etc. that could have greatly minimized suffering in the world.

Religion stifled scientific discoveries in this situation. And we all know that scientific discoveries are the main reason for life expectancies skyrocketing.

Islam gave the kiss of death to that which makes modern civilization successful.

It's not a coincidence that the more of this



we see, the better the world gets.

And the more of this



we see, the worse the world gets.

So, what do you have to say Shahrad, and Islam defenders? (I'm looking at you hardball)

100% of calculus came from British virgins....... Why?

Well, one pretty good reason why might be that their minds weren't hijacked by people, ideas, or a religion that told them that math was evil.

Here's a new fun fact:

Muslims ~20% of the world's population.
Muslims author ~1% of the world's scientific papers.

It's a coincidence right Max? The most strictly religious introverted society on the planet also happens to be one of the worst at science, especially when taking into account the amount of adherents.

It's a coincidence, clearly. Nothing disturbing is going on here.

Don't really see how that was the case. Galileo was IMPRISONED pretty much for doing math right before Newton was born.... and Newton did more unique and original math than any human in history.

Ramaujan thought that some Hindu godess came down and told him math..... He did amazing math, but most mathematicians don't pray to hindu goddesses.

Max. Do you really think there is a good, rational justification for why Muslims are 20% of the population and author 1% of the world's scientific papers?

It seems obvious to me that when you are born into a religion where you have to pray to Mecca 5 times a day, visit Mecca once a year, strictly watch and hold your family to the religions tenets, that leaves at least a little less time for science, and most importantly a little less interest in science, across the board.

Being allowed to freely rape women, whenever they want, however many times they want, might also take priority in a mans life, over taking the time to say, understand the intricacies and values of the scientific method.

Are you seriously going to argue that?

This looks like Thunderf00t's recent YouTube video, The Real Threat from Islam.

In it, he says that while Muslims comprise 20% of the world's population, they only produce 1% of the scientific papers.

He is getting a decent amount of flak for it. They say he is confusing correlation with causation, or that he is a bigot or ignorant.

One video response says:

Egyptians have built 80% of the largest existing pyramids on Earth.!!!!! Nothing disturbing imo

I concede that religion hampers intellectual* development, but not by much in my view and I don't know enough about Islam to say whether it's more or less than christianity. Nonetheless, my immediate thought is that wealth is a far more significant determinant of nobel success. I suspect the reason muslim nations fare badly here is more to do with them being poor than them being stupid and/or intellectually stifled.

To me such a correlation would explain why the US is so dominant in nobel prize winning, even though they are far more religious than other western nations. How do you account for that fact? Creationist nations are more likely to win nobel prizes?

*EDIT: I concede it hampers development in the fields which award nobel prizes, anyhow.

What percentage of "scientific papers" are written in English?

What about him?:



So much for the English virgin/calculus connection.

You've convinced me. I'm now going to go out and evangelize for Judaism.

It seems pretty simple to account for that by saying that western religions are generally much more moderate than Islam.

I mean why does the US (with many more creationists) do so much better than western nations who in general have a more moderate view of religion?

You are right, it does seem simple.

Except for the part where I demonstrated certain areas of an average Muslims life where, due to religion, he easily becomes either distracted or disinterested in science, and you did nothing to support the idea that Judaism is a reason for Jews writing scientific papers, sure.

Fair enough.... but in his own words

"Fantasy replaced reality."

I'd say fantasy is reality: Perceptual experience is putting your own concepts and beliefs on top of raw empirical experience. (Here, I'm thinking of Davidsonian coherentism.)

And we do even better when it comes to Fields Medals

Creationists in the US for the most part do not have a problem with science. Other than evolution - but disagreeing on whether evolution is true or not for a Christian in the US is not nearly as harmful to the construct of a scientific society as say, teaching all the young men in the country that they are allowed to rape women whenever they want, or that they need to pray to Mecca for the 4th time today before touching that test tube.

Western Creationist /= Eastern Creationist. The two are different. One is pretty obviously worse, but nobody in this thread wants to admit it for fear of being called a racist or a bigot that has been pounded into people's heads in modern day media.

Western culture also do better when it comes to texting tournaments and Real World seasons, and reality TV trivia tournaments.

Isn't your contention that preoccupation with religious beliefs in general is harmful for science? Or it's specifically that being taught to rape people makes you less likely to do science?

I thought you were saying the former and it seems to me that there is a confounding statistic (wealth). The reason I find that a better explanation is that it explains other phenomenon besides the one it was intended to. "They get taught it's ok to rape, so they don't do very good science" sounds very ad hoc to me. I can see a causal relationship between resources/education/spare time that I don't see in the case of approved rape.

EDIT: Perhaps to illustrate why I see your explanation as arbitrary. When you say:
I don't see why and, in fact, I think the exact opposite is obviously true. I think the doubting of evolution (with all the associated mental shennanigans that entails) is far more harmful to the development of a scientific society because I can see a clear relationship between the two.

You are making 2 mistakes:
1) You are saying that under Islamic reign tolerance and scientific thinking was possible. I quote you: "Baghdad (my note: The middle of an islamic Land) was the middle of the intellectual, scientific, mathematical world during 800-1100. " And then you say under Islamic reign tolerance and scientific thinking is not possible. Apparantly this is a contradiction.
You have to consider that islam is an Object and not a Subject. So practicizing Islam depends on the Subject that is interpreting it. One might interpret it like Al Ghazali and one other might not.
2)You are claiming (indirectly) that discoveries, cures etc are able to minimize suffering in the world, I quote you "This situation alone has likely robbed the world of several discoveries, cures, etc. that could have greatly minimized suffering in the world."
I don't think that you can prove this. Can you? If yes than just go ahead and show us how science did minimize our suffering.

I'm willing to admit it. I think islam is more oppressive than christianity in general. I think there are moderates and fundamentalists in each, but I think the dominant force is clearly a difference between the two.

Both. In short, there are things that Muslims are taught by their religion that makes them particularly dislike or disinterested in science.

Can the men in the thread really say that if they were raised in a society where you were allowed to rape women whenever you wanted and that the resulting offspring needed to be taught and held to the same time consuming tenets that you hold to that you would probably be at least a little bit less likely in the span of your life to have learned about the rigors medicine, say?

I am using the free ability to rape here as an example. As I've stated, other examples are having to pray 5 times a day, having to visit Mecca each year, fasting during Ramadan.

It's hard enough to get through med school. Add in such time consuming, energy draining, critical thinking sapping activities and you find something else to do with your life pretty quickly IMO.

Hey look, that girl is hot. I will **** her right now. Thanks Qu'ran, you rule! You're so loving and caring!

Oops now I have kids, time to spend all my time indoctrinating them into the faith and drop out of school to work a job immediately to provide for this family spawned from ignorance.