At some point in one of his posts, I'm certain damachi made a statement similar to if Christianity was in place in Saudi Arabia then this would happen. There are thousands of posts to sort thru tho. I'm not worried about this specific issue so much as I'm sure you yourself have made at least one minor mistake( that is in the sense of not providing a source for a statement that has minimal bearings on this convo) in your 10 year + history of posting on two plus two.

Kid,
If you are going to invoke, "some scholars" you should expect someone to ask for a cite. Aaron is being reasonable in asking for a cite, no need to draw it out.

I don't think hes not being reasonable and again, I'm certain Damachi made the statement. IMO this a minute issue in terms of the whole convo. For instance Saudi Arabia is not ran by Christians.

I fully understand if you want to blame Islam on certain issues in the world. That being said, even if you still blame Islam on certain issues in say the UAE(in theory, as I don't know your positions on the UAE) there are independent human rights groups which score the UAE higher then the U.S, France and Germany. That's good enough for me in terms of how I positively view the UAE.

What do you think the human rights record of the UAE means for Islam?

Meanwhile, in Qatar...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25116925

The following are not my views but here is the response to the Guardians article, from Lusail Real Estate Development Company:

http://www.theguardian.com/global-de...icial-response

All of our subcontractors are legally obliged to meet, as a minimum, Qatar labour law. In addition, Lusail expects our subcontractors to go beyond the law in the protection of individual employees both in health & safety and labour law.

The vast majority of contractors exceed these requirements and are delivering global best practice.

The Guardian have highlighted potentially illegal activities employed by one subcontractor. We take these allegations very seriously and have referred the allegations to the appropriate authorities for investigation. Based on this investigation, we will take appropriate action against any individual or company who has found to have broken the law or contract with us.

-from The Qatar 2022 Supreme Committee

When asked Are the authorities aware of the numbers of Nepalese dying on their construction sites?


According to article 48 of Qatar Labour Law, No.14 of 2004: "The employer shall record injuries incurred by any of its employees."

According to article 108 of Qatar Labour Law, No.14 of 2004: "If the worker dies while on duty or because of the work or sustains a work injury the employer or his representative shall immediately notify the police and the department of the incident.

Why do so many young Nepalese die of heart attacks?

"This question would be better suited for the relevant health authorities or the government of Nepal"

For much more, see http://www.theguardian.com/global-de...icial-response

Solid.

I don't know how else to explain this to you, my point is that GCC states other then Saudi Arabia are great places to live. Do you have a problem with this statement? What matters in topics like this, IMO, are independent human rights reports as opposed to our views.

You could answer the question.

No thanks, I already addressed this issue.

Like the Ansar Burney Welfare Trust?

You haven't. However you are under no obligation to answer any questions but you should refrain from saying that I'm not understanding your answer when you aren't providing one.

The Ansar report which includes the worst accusations is from 2005.

Yet, from your own source

Internationally, the UAE has also led various efforts in combating human trafficking, particularly with the main countries of origin. The state has signed numerous bilateral agreements meant to regulate the labor being sent abroad by ensuring transactions are conducted by labor ministries and not profiting recruitment agencies.

The Government has been trying to curb prostitution. In March 2007, it was reported that the UAE has deported over 4,300 sex workers mainly from Dubai.

Special funds to provide support for victims have been created such as Dubai’s Foundation for the Protection of Women and Children, Abu Dhabi’s Social Support Center, the Abu Dhabi Shelter for Victims of Human Trafficking and the UAE Red Crescent Authority. Services offered include counseling, schooling, recreational facilities, psychological support and shelter. Mainly women and children receive assistance and in certain cases are even repatriated to their home countries.

Human trafficking and prostitution is unacceptable anywhere in the world, and it occurs everywhere. But your link does not provide a full view of human rights around the world.



http://ihrri.com/contry.php

In 2013, the Norway-based Global Network for Rights and Development (GNRD) released its annual International Human Rights Indicator (IHRRI) report that ranks the United Arab Emirates first among Arab countries and 14th globally for respecting human rights. The UAE was also ranked six spots ahead of the United States which was placed 20th overall.

My link was merely intended to suggest that your great places to live assertion deserves some qualification.

In any case given that you are posting this in a "Islam is a Religion of Peace" thread while refusing to tell me what this has to do with Islam makes me less inclined to want to discuss this with you.

The UAE may well rank highly on human rights but if you are going to cite this as evidence of Islam then you have to defend the charges of lower ranked muslim majority countries being lower ranked as a result of Islam. It seems you wish to do one but not do the other.

As an aside the population of the GCC is approximately 42million, Saudi Arabia makes up 2/3 of that, you are citing the rest of the GCC ignoring that SA is the majority of it.

Nice try.

The GNRD is an thinly veiled Arab advocacy group. Its methodology is unpublished and the source and treatment of its data is concealed. Its president is a questionable character at best:

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/11/...-under-threat/

and its vp is from Sudan. Its web communications are in English and Arabic.

Here is a page with their leadership:

http://gnrd.net/pages.php?id=2

Not exactly a diverse group.

The rankings mean nothing.

For example, the UAE gets higher marks than the US on "right to marry". However, gay marriage is legal in at least some parts of the US while it is completely illegal in the UAE. So how is that determined?

Do you really think that people on this site are stupid enough to be fooled by unsubstantiated nonsense like this? Work a little harder or quit altogether.

News article from a few weeks ago regarding freedom of expression in UAE:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/12...arab-emirates/

The video in question is available for viewing directly from the National Post link above

Well, Dereds is touching on a major point.

Why is that when it comes to brutalities and human rights violations we must blame the political systems and people in power, but when it comes to progressive action and political freedom we must attribute it to Islam?

Doesn't the "Islam doesn't do X, people do X" argument carry both ways?

This is my problem with people refusing to accept trends or isolation of causal factors when debating cultural phenomena. If we can't do this, then we can't actually debate cultural phenomena.

Okay, some might say: Well, I'm just listing up good stuff to counter people who list bad stuff. Which admittedly does happen. But the debate is invariably about causation and that is where it belongs, and just lowering the bar isn't ever going to go anywhere.

The source was not Gulf News, it was a Norway based human rights group(including the graph)

It is "Norway based" but its entire management group are Arabs. Also its ranking methodology is not disclosed. Given that, it is very weak support for any assertion concerning the human rights record of Muslim countries.

No one has blamed Islam of anything in any of your threads. It turns out these are all cultural phenomenons and criticisms. You have solved Islamophobia!!



You might not want to point out the stick in someones elses eye so much though. I hear Yahweh doesn't dig that.

You were deviating from the conversation with the Islam Question, in which case I have already addressed.

The GCC consists of 6 states. One of which is the UAE, home to 10% of oil reserves worldwide, that in itself makes the UAE one of the most important countries in terms of global economic contributions. At the same time, its quite remarkable how far the UAE has come in terms of treatment of its citizens as outlined in the 2013 Norway Human rights report.

Did you just accuse someone else of "deviating from the conversation"

That is Rich!

We are an independent, neutral, free of bias work group of human rights defenders, formed and supported by the International NGO Global Network for Rights and Development (GNRD). We act with the assistance of our members from all over the world, and in cooperation with different international organizations, NGOs and governments.

but its entire management group are Arabs What the?

Our Mission
We are an independent, neutral, free of bias work group of human rights defenders, formed and supported by the International NGO Global Network for Rights and Development (GNRD). We act with the assistance of our members from all over the world, and in cooperation with different international organizations, NGOs and governments

http://ihrri.com/about.php

You can contribute to the protection of human rights by registering in our system a case of a human rights violation that you faced or have been still facing. You can fill in the form anonymously or indicate your personal data. Thank you!

Here is the site which powers ihrri, http://www.gnrd.net/

This is a good informative site created by non bias people. For example The site is critical of Iraq's policies toward its citizens, along with being critical of multiple Muslim majority countries. RLK I think you were confusing different groups. And unlike the International coalition of Jews and Christians (which is critical of Islam) The organisation that I cite may have some Arabs in upper mgmt, but the organisation caters to assisting humans of all religions.

Folks, honestly you tell me which site caters more to caring for all humans, as opposed to specific groups

http://www.iccj.org/

Mission Statement

The ICCJ

promote understanding and cooperation between Christians and Jews based on respect for each other's identity and integrity;


or

http://www.gnrd.net/

Our Mission
We are an independent, neutral, free of bias work group of human rights defenders, formed and supported by the International NGO Global Network for Rights and Development (GNRD). We act with the assistance of our members from all over the world, and in cooperation with different international organizations, NGOs and governments

Isn't Dubai in the UAE? All the reports of Migrant Worker conditions there certainly seem promising for human rights..

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/18...igrant-worker/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7985361.stm

Of course, those people are not citizens so they probably don't count as Humans in your view.

Well, if you can't trust an organization to tell you how unbiased they are, who can you trust.

"Fair & Balanced" right?