Here I am not taking my own advice.

As usual, much of what you post Kid is incorrect.

Not true. At this point I did not particularly care if you responded or not.

This is completely incorrect although I suspect that was a fault of your memory.

You posted this

because you did not like my comments about the military situation in North Africa during WWII. That was on Nov. 30. I commented on the video the next day.

Just to be clear, the disturbing thing was not the three leaders with the fanatical views. The disturbing thing was the room full of an eclectic mix of fairly young people willing to raise their hands in support of a clearly stated barbaric practice, ie. stoning as a penalty for adultery.

You then posted this:

Essentially a no content insult.

I answered with this giving you the fair chance to add content:


I am still waiting for some content to back up your response to my comment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia

EDIT: respond to RLK first.

So basically nothing other than "go read the other thread".

Athiest regimes? Evidence that these regimes were guided by atheist doctrine (lol)?

Gonna need a citation for this

Ah the old "but the dinosaurs are buried here, and i met some guy with a labron t shirt" argument. Its almost like you have a book that you follow that outlines how you deal with any criticism whatsoever:

a) Character assassination ("you care about human rights violations and are therefore an islamaphobe!!! mods can you please ban this guy!!")
b) Link to random youtube video
c) Strawman the critique as being directed toward all muslim people
d) Purely lol comments displaying lack of understanding of the meaning of words (like "SA is far from totalitarianism!")
e) Random anecdotes about nice food/clothes/guy you saw wearing Nikes

Make sure you completely ignore and handwave away ALL EVIDENCE! Don't concede a single inch! Stick to the technique listed in a-e and your check is in the mail!!

Lol that you are trying to fight this misconception that muslims are more prone to violence than other theists with your expert strategy of being a complete apologist for violent, oppressive regimes. Even more lol that you can't see how terrible this is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia

This is false, as there have been orders of magnitudes more religious massacres than atheist. I think you mean that the atheist massacres killed more people. Unfortunately, this just suggests that atheists are more efficient than the religious.



Mostly, I think your constant use of tu quoque arguments isn't really helping you much.

Lol you guys don't know what you are talking about. I was in SA and i met a guy who was wearing Nikes and knew who Lebron James is!

*link to random youtube*

As for S.A

Like I said its an ongoing improvement wrt to the political situation in S.A . We see differences in rules of society of Muslim nations like S.A compared to the likes of Jordan/Lebanon/Kuwait of which are 3 countries where women are far more empowered None the less,

Women were previously forbidden from voting or being elected to political office, but King Abdullah declared that women will be able to vote and run in the 2015 local elections, as well as be appointed to the Consultative Assembly.

Huda noted that two years ago, the king opened a fully integrated co-ed King Abdullah University of Science and Technology, or KAUST, in the town of Thuwal. The king also appointed the first female deputy minister -- of women's education.

Women in labour force 17% (2012) (Gender Inequality Index)

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...omen-vote.html

Ah so after all of that "its not as bad as it seems!" "the food is nice!" you are now changing strategy to "thats not islam!!". Your sincerity would have been more believable if you didn't bury yourself in the mud already.

To help out thekid I will post an article by famous columnist Thomas Friedman about the liberalization of the Arab monarchs and now the Gulf is a great place to live. A must read.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/12/01...ning.html?_r=2

There are plenty of totally legitimate discussions to be had about stuff like this. Thekid345 going hard to the paint for ridiculous policies results in the thread being a lolfest rather than an analysis about subtle shifts that actually are occurring.

I would imagine some of the recent moves by King Abdullah were due to pressure from the Arab spring. I brought up the stat before of how 60% of Saudi college grads are women, obv it would be useful if women could drive in S.A and I am willing to predict they will have this right within 1 year. Then more expansions will occur, this is what many of the men want as well.

I have bluff on ignore but keep in mind S.A is home to Mecca and Medina, two of Islams most holy sites. Things are not going to change overnight

But why would it matter if it was home to islamic holy sites?? I thought all of these things were due to human failure.

lol i forgot about the dreaded last option, when a-e doesn't work

f) ignore the poster and continue doubling down on everything like a maniac

It must suck to be a person who has such a fragile worldview that he can't handle critique to an extent where he has to ignore posters who are totally being sincere and not trolling in the slightest (and of course his lame attempt in ATF to get the mods to start banning people/censoring 2+2). His attempt to censor the dissent warrants a permanent ban imo.

So much for debate, seems more like, "this is what i say and this is how it is", much like the way the regimes he supports (and is arguably paid by) run their lands. Its obviously because rational thought is the enemy of tyranny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia

Then you should probably read this

http://www.yourmiddleeast.com/opinio...xplained_19933

Did you even watch this video?

The first question she answers is that she would say she had at most two Saudi friends and that they are US born.

Then she says she works and lives in a Western compound and 98% of the people she deals with are non-Saudi and speak English as a first language from places like Britain or Australia.

The next thing she says is that if she could define Saudi culture in one word it would be "restrictive".

So basically it's the testimony of a woman who is only happy to live there because she's utterly detached from what general native culture and life is like.

How on Earth could you imagine this would support your point?

You have the videos mixed up but yes I did watch them both. If you read my other thread you will see I have criticized certain polices of S.A, but I refuse to blanket criticize the whole country. For instance, part of the routine in S.A is daily Salat (prayer) where everyone stops what they are doing to pray facing Mecca.

The way some of the folks are reacting itt is sort of amusing to me and I would imagine many Saudis as well. If folks are really interested in what Saudis have to say I would recommend signing up for the Saudi Gazete, an internet newspaper published in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

Sorry for the misquote. The iPad switches to the YouTube app and then I had to scroll around to find the link again.

But anyway, let's talk about the video I referred to in my last post. The fact that she doesn't have any integration with Saudi culture and people and describes the country as "restrictive" doesn't really support your point does it?

Yes she does say "restrictive" but she further states "its not that bad here" But the man point I took from the video was that she said herself "you have to change your attitude when you come to S.A because they wont change for you"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7_0hjn5VIA here is a video of the same women outside somewhere in S.A

Some of the accusations itt just don't make sense considering that a decent amount of foreign females travel to S.A for work along with how 60% of the Saudi college grads are females. Along with how 17% of the Saudi workforce is female.

Right, she says it's restrictive and she's speaking as someone who is actually sheltered from the general culture.

That last video, she says she constantly has to worry about what she wears because, and I quote, "I don't want any trouble". That's absolutely horrendous. She essentially says that her life is good because she has more money and time to travel, but even in the video she has to keep a coat with her because people might be watching.

Yes, anything bad done by Muslims is not representative of Islam, they're not true Muslims, anything good done by Muslims...... well, you get the gist.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...012700951.html

Oldie but goldie.

But it is the workplace that is becoming the leading edge of change. Last year, King Abdullah, who is seen as a cautious reformist when it comes to women's rights, ordered that no longer would women have to buy underwear from male shop assistants - lingerie shops would be staffed by women. Jewellery shops and those selling abayas - the long black robes that women have to wear in the kingdom - will also go through the same process of hiring women.

These are seen as huge leaps forward for the ultra-conservative kingdom. Despite the fact that it spends heavily on educating both men and women - 60% of those who graduate from Saudi's universities are female - only 17% of women are actually in the job market. That compares with 75% of men.

In other threads where the discussion is about the U.S.A , folks ought to invade these threads with stats of human rights violations by the USA. It should not matter what the topic is so long as it has to do with the U.S. It should now be necessary to invade forums with your own personal agenda regardless of the topic.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20697030 here I am providing a link which shows both how S.A is a conservative country nonetheless significant improvements are underway and they deserve notice IMO .

Who are the people holding the Saudi Arabian population back from reforming?

http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0...-saudi-arabia/

Lets not forget about Princess Ameerah al-Taweel who herself states the older traditional female population of S.A are on board with the conservative laws. Yet it is the younger generation of course that seeks some change. IMO This is why we see a 98%+ literacy rate in S.A for age groups 10-14 (M/F)