So, my co-worker(his father is a priest at a black church) is a very devout christian. He says that when you kill yourself, there's no way you can go to heaven.

I present him the following situation: what if someone says you kill yourself or I'll kill these 300 kids? Then would you kill yourself? He said "no because i have a lot of life left" or something like that.

Then I ask him what if you're 50 and you're presented with the same stipulation. He again says "no i'll let the 300 kids die. i'll die when god wants me to die".

Then I ask him "what if you're 95 and doctors tell you that you have 2 hrs to live and you have to kill yourself now or the 300 kids die"? He says no again.

At this point, I tell him that I thought the whole concept of heaven is that good people go there and bad people go to hell. Then he's like "bible says something about that actually. it tells you to stay away from people who say foolish things and you're saying some foolish things right now".

How would you answer the questions I posed him?

Unless you're willing to kidnap 300 children and make the hypothetical dilemma real, you'll never get a straight answer.

I think that you should make him realize what he is saying. If this were a true scenario you have to break down what is really happening. You are not in a position of true suicide, but a chance to save the lives of others by sacrificing yourself. I remember a fairly well know biblical figure that was also in that situation. Jesus. So if you phrase the situation correctly and get him to agree before mentioning Jesus, you could probably get him to inadvertently claim that Jesus must be in hell for committing suicide. After all Jesus said that he could have stopped it all by asking God to send a legion of angels. What really is the difference.

Anyway, what is it that the Christians on this board supposed to rescue you from?

The ultimate sacrifice. Not just overwrought theatrics after all. "Jesus went to hell to save mankind" is an interesting heresy.

lol @ christians trying to be moral

My answers are above, I really do not understand any point to your questions in the first place? Are you trying to prove something?

yeah, that you are delusional, selfish, and heartless, believing that an "all loving God" would prefer to keep a 95 year old alive for 2 more hours instead of 300 innocent children.

The bible actually states that Jesus Christ was in hell three days and three nights by the way.....

The issue is none of you understand what is meant by hell, you all think its some firey brothel where the devil pokes you with a hot poker! LOL!

maybe we can start from a more basic and constructive viewpoint.

Pletho, what does god want from humans and why?

You have no clue about God in general or His nature. If you knew the word well you would understand. God does not want anyone to die at all, a 95 year old or 300 children innocent or not.

The question is actually a stupid question, it is possible to happen in life thoough, but still the answer would be no.

God would not want a 95 year old to die for 300 children, He would want the person who set up and caused this scenario to come to pass to be stopped, the ultimate will of God in that situation, would be that the individual trying to force a decision like this to happen, to be brought to stopped and brought to justice.

Which God? You asked using god, instead of God, so I will assume you mean the wrong one?

whatever god you believe in.

too bad God doesn't do does (free will, remember?). He just sits in the sky and HOPES that it happens. so loving, so kind.

explain, in clear words, why a person sacrificing their life (knowing they will die, for example) for 300 innocent children is a sinful thing. Forget the murderer or the person making the threat, lets just assume the example is this:

If you are 95 years old, and have 2 hours to live, the doctors ask you to drain your body of all its blood to provide blood to help 300 children survive from a horrendous accident. You know that if you give up that much blood you will die. What do you do?

This is up for debate, and even if one sides with the idea that Jesus went to Hell, it was for a purpose and he was obviously not kept there.

This is not what I believe. Not that you actually have an understanding, you just accidentally got this right. But don't worry it is easy for you to get confused when you get your theology from random web pages.

Your problem is that you don't know how to interpret the bible. You try, but I think you still have your pagan blinders on. That's ok, maybe one day you will figure out how to remove them.

I am available on skype if you would like me to walk you through how to take them off.

jesus wants babys to die

I would make the same choices as you co-worker but for different reasons (I'm an atheist). To quote Dr. House: "If you don't think your life is worth more than someone else's, sign your donor card and kill yourself now".

Would've done it when I was 92 and on my deathbed though.

Wrong


Then you are a terrible person. I believe that there is nothing whatsoever waiting for me after this life and I would kill myself in all three scenarios. The fact that your belief in God would cause you to make such an obviously horrible and cruel decision indicates there is either something terribly wrong with your beliefs or something terribly wrong with your God. Although I certainly would make a case for the latter in many instances, in this case it's clearly the former.

Of course you aren't on the hook to provide any reasons why his questions are foolish, and furthermore you didn't provide any answers as to why you would refuse to sacrifice yourself or why God would punish you for making the opposite decision. Just as his friend did, you are using that quote as an escape from defending such obviously moronic stances as those you are taking.


OP, it seems your friend is a moron. Although I am not a huge fan of the Christian faith, you'd be hard pressed to find any belief about anything that wasn't held by at least a few of those, so I don't think it's fair to blame his religion for his idiocy in this case.

I don't think he was referring to a 300:1 ratio.

I never said it was a sinful thing at all..... I still would say no......

I think your an idiot by the way, you have no clue what you believe when it comes to the bible, just for the record.

That's just because of your pagan blinders. Just contact me via skype and I will tell you how to take them off.

Please..................

bumping again because i feel this is still relevant, whatever god you believe in, what does it want for humans and why?

This is the wrong response. Presuming he is a Christian. The correct one is: "Reeeeeeallly? Can you show me where Jesus said that? Do you have a Bible with you - can you get one? I want to read about that."

Since he can't do that, you are done. And so is he.

BTW, Christ did have to die on the cross. He was quite capable of walking away. He allowed it to happen. He was wholly responsible for His own Earthly death. Not exactly suicide, buuuuuuuut.....

This may have been answered in another thread, but where in the Bible is suicide condemned?