this is a very interesting topic, btw a quick question... I was born in the USA, could I become a citizen of Israel??? Or must I have been born in Israel or of Jewish heritage (i could not find the answer on wiki or a trusted source

Anyways one thing is for sure, there is only one race the human race, as for religion...

wiki has some info, I hope this is appropriate and useful, as I am not Israeli or very keen on the subject

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew <-- this one is a source of controversy tho, apparently its both liked and disliked in Israel.

but it includes the general information "According to the simplest definition used by Jews for self-identification, a person is a Jew by birth, or becomes one through religious conversion"

and "All Jewish religious movements agree that a person may be a Jew either by birth or through conversion" This is contemporary Judaism


seems pretty standard like the other religions. Well not Scientology

Despite some riffraff answers, the answer is they would almost certainly know, but not 100%.

Being Jewish is more generally a nationality - not like what country's citizen you are, but "the Jews" tend to fit very cleanly within the definition of "nation".

That said, there is a Jewish religion. And even though you might eat cheeseburgers and lobster, the generally accepted principle, (derived from the religion's laws), is that if your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish.

That's from the Jewish perspective - of course iirc if your father is Christian, then you are Christian from the Christian perspective.

From the State of Israel's perspective, since the Nazis decided that anyone with a single Jewish grandparent was worth slaughtering, Israel decided - in a big **** you to the Nazis - that anyone with a single Jewish grandparent would be considered Jewish for the Law of Return.

Religiously speaking, you're required to follow the commandments. But who really gives a **** if you don't believe in that. Likewise, unless you plan on moving to Israel (which wouldn't be the worst thing), it doesn't much matter either.

So, I guess here's the point; what is important is two things:

First, you are who you say you are. If you identify as a Jew, good for you. If you don't want to be a Jew, the community might mourn you and you may disappoint your family - that's your call. If you want a religious life, youre lucky you don't need to do any conversions or anything and you have an avenue to learn. If you don't want a religious life, don't feel bad and just worry about being a generally good person and I'd feel like I did some good with this post.

Second, remember that there will always be people out there that will call you a Jew and treat you like one (in all the different ways a person will treat "a Jew") whether you want to be Jewish or not.

Can you quantify "almost certainly" and show us where in that article (or elsewhere) you are getting that number from?

If your mother is Jewish and your father is Italian or Scicilian Catholic can you get into the Mafia?

I presented the research from the wiki page, if you're going to argue with it at least read it.

I can't quantify the likelihood, but you shouldn't need to with a little logic.

From this we can separate a reasonably high percentage of Jews from their host European populations. The wiki page describes certain DNA haplotypes that have a high frequency of occurence among all Jews.

But what about the rest?

This adds to the idea that we can separate Jews from non-Jews in any particular population type. But it admittedly doesnt say much for separating between Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews.

The specific sections on Ashkenazi Jews go into further detail, but its pretty clear that there is enough DNA in common that a pretty high level of certainty can be achieved.

I read most of it and I'm not arguing with it. I'm arguing with your completely unquantifiable "almost certainly." I mean, do you even mean "more than 50%" with that or what?

All I'm reading from the wiki page is that if they find certain DNA markers, it can indicate Middle Eastern origin. The presence of this DNA doesn't mean you're Jewish (in fact, I don't recall reading the positive predictive value of these markers), and their absence doesn't mean you aren't Jewish (like the mitochondrial DNA mentioned is only present in 40% of the Ashkenazi Jews).

I'm not reading anything that says that they can take a person's DNA and tell you that they are or are not Jewish with any appreciable certainty. I'm not reading that they can't, either, but I'd say the burden is clearly on you if you claim they can be very sure.

Ok. Let's go further.

And commercially, it looks like claims are being made as well:
Haaretz, not exactly a nationalist newspaper, reports on this study supporting the idea that Jews are a race and being Jewish can be tested genetically.

Thanks Gamblor, thats interesting.

Maybe I'll start thinking of myself as an "Atheist Jew." lol

This is a lot of reading, but it seems to be the same information as before. The commercial test, for example, can test the paternal line or the mitochondrial DNA (maternal line), and that mitochondrial DNA is the same that we knew about that is present in 40% of Ashkenazi Jews and is of Middle Eastern origin (so I think it's present in non-Jews as well?).

I can't find it, but it'd be nice if someone came out more simply with an explanation of a genetic test for Jew-ness and could tell us the positive predictive value of it. Even reading some of the citations from your links, I can't find this. It is clear that Jews share some DNA that is less common among non-Jews, but it's not clear to me yet that a genetic test can tell you if someone is Jewish with near certainty. Am I just missing the line that says this?

hey, go right ahead. you wouldn't be the first.

for what its worth, even though you don't have to wear a black hat or dress like a penguin, i feel like there's more to it than just blood.

me, let's call me an agnostic traditionalist. i don't eat shrimp, i keep shabbat with my parents, i say some blessings. not because i think a lightning bolt will hit me if i don't, or that i won't go to heaven, or that god is watching me, or that god said don't kill fetuses or any of that ****.

frankly, i don't know if there's a god. i learn about torah and halacha and that stuff to remind myself where i come from, to keep that place and its traditions and ethics alive, and to not take things for granted.

That last link lead me to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanistic_Judaism

I did not know Bugsy Siegel, Meyer Lansky and "Murder Incorporated" were Jews.


Wiki...
During Prohibition, Jewish gangsters became major operatives in the American underworld and played prominent roles in the distribution of illegal alcohol and the spread of organized crime throughout the United States. At the time, Jewish gangs operated primarily in America's largest cities, including Cleveland, Detroit, Minneapolis, Newark, New York City, and Philadelphia. Numerous bootlegging gangs such as the Bug and Meyer Mob headed by Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Siegel and Abe Bernstein's Purple Gang [17] would see the rise of Jewish-American organized crime to its height. Other mobsters included Dutch Schultz,[18] Moe Dalitz, Charles "King" Solomon and Abner "Longy" Zwillman became wealthy during Prohibition.

During this time, Luciano successfully eliminated the Old World Sicilian Mafia bosses like Joe Masseria and Salvatore Maranzano in the 1931 Castellammarese War and took control of the New York Italian Mafia. Luciano did not discriminate against Jews and valued longtime associates such as Meyer Lansky and Benjamin 'Bugsy' Siegel. Several Jewish gangsters such as Red Levine and Bo Weinberg were used in the war as unsuspected non-Italian hitmen.[13] After Masseria and Maranzano were murdered, a conference was held at New York's Franconia Hotel on November 11, 1931 which included Jewish mobsters such as Jacob Shapiro, Louis "Lepke" Buchalter, Joseph "Doc" Stacher, Hyman "Curly" Holtz, Louis "Shadows" Kravitz, Harry Tietlebaum, Philip "Little Farvel" Kovolick and Harry "Big Greenie" Greenberg. During this meeting, Luciano and Lansky convinced the Jewish-American mobsters of the benefits of cooperating with the Italian-American Mafia in a newly created consortium called the National Crime Syndicate by the press. At the meeting's conclusion, "Bugsy" Siegel supposedly declared "The yids and the dagos will no longer fight each other."[19]

Those Jewish gangsters hostile to the idea of cooperation with non-Jewish rivals gradually receded, most notably Philadelphia bootlegger Waxey Gordon, who was convicted and imprisoned for tax evasion. Following Gordon's imprisonment, his operations were assumed by Nig Rosen and Max "Boo Hoo" Hoff.

Under Lansky, Jewish mobsters became involved in syndicate gambling interests in Cuba and Las Vegas.[20] Buchalter would also lead the predominantly Jewish Murder Incorporated as the Luciano-Meyer syndicate's exclusive hitmen.[21]

Boardwalk Empire on HBO includes many of the prohibition era Jewish mobsters. Although they misportrayed Arnold Rothstein as a stylish gentlemen . In reality the guy was quite brutal and not so well spoken and learned how to become a mafia person thru Lucky Luciano. The HBO show suggests Rothstein is a mentor to Luciano, when it was the other way around.