My mother was born to Jewish parents, my dad Lutheran parents . People say this makes me Jewish. I don't believe in the Jewish religion. In fact, I believe it is wrong. I am and have always been Atheist just like my mothers parents.

If I believe the Jewish religion is wrong, built on lies, and total BS, am I still a Jew?

I have had people tell me it is a race of people. Can you look at my DNA and tell I am a Jew? I see that people like Madonna become Jews. If it is a race how do you join a race. I am of European decent. Can I become Asian because I think their culture is cool? Also, how can a race be passed on by just the mother and not the father?

Please help me understand why I am Jewish and what it means.

Wikipedia defines Judaism as the ethnoreligious group, which is defined as " an ethnic group of people whose members are also unified by a common religious background. Ethnoreligious communities define their ethnic identity neither exclusively by ancestral heritage nor simply by religious affiliation, but often through a combination of both."

Your religion is not Judaism, clearly, btw.

As for race, it seems that race really isn't so much of a genetic concept as it is imagined to be. There are genetic similarities among Jews, though. There are a number of genetic diseases that affect Ashkenazi Jews more than other groups of people, as discussed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical..._Jewish_people

If I got a DNA test could they tell me if I was an Ashkenazi Jew? Or would I have to tell them I was an Ashkenazi Jew and they would then look for those diseases?

No, as I said, race really isn't a genetic construct. Also, the diseases that are more common amongst Ashkenazi Jews do occur in other people, so the presence of those diseases doesn't prove one to be Ashkenazi.

None of this invalidates that there are genetic similarities amongst Jews.

If your mother is Jewish you will usually be counted as a Jew (by jews) - regardless of your actual faith. Anyone else has to convert to Judaism. The reasons are Torah edicts regarding heritage and conversion.

This is what is typical. As with most things, there are exceptions.

If Original Position still presides as mod here, I'm sure he'd be happy to offer some examples of synagogue-attending New York Jews who also happen to be atheists.

Presumably as a result of selective breeding. Jews tend to mate with other Jews. I wonder what would happen in the long term if no fresh genes were brought into their gene pool, whether Jews would eventually become significantly different in the same way that Caucasians differ from Asians? A genetic difference caused and perpetuated by religious beliefs. Would that be a first?

This.

Another thing you'd look for with regard to "technically" being considered a jew is whether you're circumcized. If you are, you are considered to show the sign of the abrahmic covenant with god, which is basically the same as saying "You are considered a Jew." It's similar to babtism.

Does that apply to anyone who's circumcised then? I know Christians who are circumcised.

What a truly truly bizarre thing to do to worship a god.

No. There are many reasons to be circumcised. Muslims are too, for example. But if you are born to jewish parents (or one jewish parent), the fact that you were circumcized is evidence that your parent(s) intended you to be considered part of their own religious tradition.

Yet again, awareness of the facts helps prevent silly statements.

It's not an act of worship but an act of establishing identity. Which is why I phrased my statement in the somewhat clumsy way of "considered showing the sign of". Also similar to babtism, which is also not primarily an act of worship but of establishing identity. Naturally, anything in which you "engage the divine", so to speak, has -- to the religious person -- elements of worship, but here this is not the primary concern. If you want to worship god, there are other ways of doing that that don't involve babys screaming like gutted pigs.

Always true and yet...

I think it's a very fine line. It could be considered an act of respect and that could also be construed as worship in the context of gods. No?

Anyhow... that's a digression.

Powder, don't sweat it, I'm sure there's a philosophical argument that will prove that you're whatever you think you are, I just don't know what it is

Of course. In the end - why am I getting babtized, after all? Because I accept God blabla, so of course, in a sense by accepting babtism I am implying that god is blabla, so I'm worshiping him.

But if you want that to be the end of it, you'd have to be willing to apply the same broad subsumption in all other cases of ritual. Why do we greet people, give presents, condole others and go vote democrat despite living in CA (where it really doesn't matter numbers-wise)? It would be all for some same reason: provide societal glue, for example. But surely there are significant differences between all of these acts and few would hold that holding the door is really not different from condoling a coworker.

So, sure, for a religious person, basically his entire existence is (ideally) one big testimony towards gods greatness. That doesn't mean that to him, going to the loo and attending mass is totally the same thing.

Essentially this argument with substituted terms: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=109

Just FYI - It's "baptism" in English.

I generally know this.

Interesting. I was not circumcised until I was 5 yo. I got an infection. I remember waking up from the surgery and getting a bowl of ice cream. My full brother is not circumcised. Does this mean he is not a Jew?

Well, good that you mentioned the ice cream. That seals the deal - you're a jew.

It probably means that your mother either didn't care or couldn't establish her pov over your father. In both cases, you'd have legitimate reason to question your jewishness on "technical grounds", as the "religious" kind of circumcision is generally done on the 8th day. So having some kind of infection in childhood "doesn't count". It remains that jewishness is "passed on" through the maternal line. Whether you should care is another question entirely.

If you do, I guess you could fly to Jerusalem and piss on the wailing wall or something. That should be sufficiently "performative" to constitute a thorough breach of the covenant.

If liking ice cream makes me Jewish I'm in...lol


Pretty funny, thanks for the laughs. I would love to visit Israel because I like to travel. I'm not interested in insulting anyone while there. I grew up without religion and I'm curious what makes me a "Jew" (other then my GF saying I don't buy her enough expensive jewelry).

I don't get your issues with you being Jewish or not. Is your religion Judaism? You say no so it's not. Are you genetically Jewish? There's not really such a thing so no. Are you culturally Jewish? It doesn't sound like it, but we barely know you. So what are you looking for here?

You are not a member of the Jewish religion if you don't want to be. But for historical reasons, most Jews will consider you to be of Jewish ethnicity, since historically Jews tended to marry inside their faith (until recent times) and did not have a lot of converts (they don't make it as easy to convert to being a Jew compared to most other religions).

Since Jews historically married inside their faith, your DNA can "probably" identify you as having as having some Jewish bloodlines, but not always.

For a while, Madonna was into Jewish Mysticism, but I think she is back to being Catholic again.

Prior to modern science, if a Jewish father married a non-Jewish mother, there is no guarantee that the mother was made pregnant by the Jewish father, so it would not be possible to prove there was a Jewish bloodline with the child. Obviously, if the mother gave birth, and she was Jewish, then the child must be at least half-Jewish. All of this was before In Vitro fertilization and DNA testing.

It means you have some Jewish ancestors, but if you don't believe in Judaism, you are not Jewish. Note that many Jews will still claim you as Jewish, because even though they don't encourage a lot of conversion to Judaism, they don't like to "loose" anyone.

I recently met a rabbi at the funeral of a friend. He is a nice guy and we talked for about 20 minutes. We even enjoyed a sip of fine tequila together. Once he found out my mother is of Jewish descent he got a bit pushy and insisted I am Jewish. I have never spent much time or energy thinking about it and always just considered myself coming from mixed heritage, and being 3rd (possibly 4th) generation atheist. The only time I would ever play the Jew card is if someone was really insulting Jews.

I have never spent 5 minutes studying Judaism. This conversation made me wonder. What makes someone a Jew? Am I Jewish?

Ok, well, from the Rabbi PoV: Jewish Mother -> you're jewish. It's that simple. Don't try to change his mind. Just move the discussion to tequila.

Yeah they're all lovely till they smell a convert He didn't ask to see your circumcision did he?

Your ancestry means you could be considered ethnically Jewish. This can has some significance in your life whether you like it or not. For instance, if you wanted to date an attractive girl from a traditional Jewish family you would have an edge. You could also join Jewish business associations and make contacts. You also can also become a citizen of Israel, if you want.

Hmm.

Lets try it this way, If you believe in God as describe in Jewish faith. When he is expecting you to follow his commands since for him you were born Jewish, How you want handle this delicate situation is your call.

If you don't believe, You're cool, you have nothing to worry about. Other than other people gonna assume you're Jewish.