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02-26-2009 , 04:04 AM
Taken from Biblical Unitarians.

I thought that this article might be a good read for those who are debating on this forum. If many of you were to apply these rules to your debates you will probably find that the majority of the debates on here break at least 1 if not all these "laws of thought".

Aristotle, the Greek philosopher credited with the discovery of logic, built his understanding upon three fundamental “laws of thought.” They are so basic that one would think that they do not even need to be said. However, in recent years these principles have been under assault and dismissed by modern philosophers. Nevertheless, in my opinion they remain fundamental to the process of clear and sound thinking. They also represent the way of thinking that is most biblical and can be illustrated by the teachings of Jesus Christ. Knowing these laws also helps us understand how Satan has so effectively “blinded the minds of them which believe not” (2 Cor. 4:4). What follows are calisthenics for the mind, and will strengthen our capacity for clear and rational thinking. We will be tempted to resist the mental discipline required to master these simple but important concepts, but doing so will enhance our capacity to discern truth and error. That, after all, makes the difference between freedom and bondage.

The Law of Identity, or “Logical Identity”


This first law of thought asserted the existence of absolute truth, and stated that if a statement is true, then it is true. To state the law symbolically, A is A. It is not “true for you” or “true for me” in this absolute sense. We all know that there is a sense that we perceive things differently and therefore can construct alternative versions of reality, or “truth,” in the temporal sense. But in the pure or absolute sense, our perceptions are not “the Truth.” They are merely our perceptions. I may have my “truth,” you may have your “truth,” but God knows “the Truth.” Logic, the science of correct reasoning, depends upon the existence of “God’s truth,” or “Truth” with a capital “T.”

We employ this law of thought when we notice in Scripture that there are two “robbers” (Gk. lestai) crucified with Christ in Matthew and two “malefactors” (Gk. kakourgoi) in Luke’s record. We then think “robbers are robbers and malefactors are malefactors. Maybe there is a reason two words are used and I shouldn’t assume they refer to the same pair.” Thinking in this way, we eventually come to the logical conclusion that there were four crucified with Christ.

Jesus basically employed this way of thinking when he asserted, in the face of a subtle form of trickery in Matthew 22:21 (KJV), “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.” God is God. Caesar is Caesar. Soup is soup. A is A.

As an aside I should point out that it is common in our post-modern culture to hear people argue that “there is no truth.” Understanding this first law of thought, we see that they are actually affirming that there is truth in the absolute sense. Their statement constructs an argument that there is at least one truth: that there is no truth. In essence, what they are saying is, “It is true that there is no truth.” This kind of statement is what is called “self-refuting.” It asserts something that it claims to deny. What could be more foolish?

It is interesting that the very nature of language shows it is designed to assist mankind in the determination of truth. The basic sentence in every language includes a subject and a predicate. A person, place or thing is put in one category or another. This is the essence of all judgment, good and bad. Marge is a gossip. It is hot out today. New Orleans is a decadent place. This soup is cold. Airline travel is boring. Elephants have big ears. The sky is blue. These are all examples of the everyday way we use language to frame and describe reality, or discern and express what we believe to be true. As we continue to interact with reality, our language changes to reflect our experience: “the sky appears blue except when it is obscured by clouds.”

Building upon this law of thought, “logical identity” is established by the following principle: If A and B are identical, whatever is true of A must also be true of B, and whatever is true of B must also be true of A. One point of dissimilarity disproves identity. If I am the author of this article and also the father of Nathan Laird Graeser of Indianapolis, Indiana, then whatever is true for the author of this article must also be true for the father of Nathan Laird Graeser of Indianapolis Indiana (I checked – he’s the only one). If the author of this article is 52 years old and bald, then the father of Nathan Laird Graeser must be 52 years old and bald.

The stakes get considerably higher when this principle is violated in connection with the identity of God. Scripture identifies the term “God” with the term “Father.” God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. That means that whatever is true of “God” (A) must also be true of “the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (B). And whatever is true of “the Father of Jesus Christ” (B) must be true of “God” (A). Logically speaking, the term “God” cannot refer to both the Father of Jesus and Jesus himself, if language is to retain any meaning and purpose. Thus, Trinitarian thinking defies the most basic law of thought and breaks down the capacity of language to convey coherent thought. This is done supposedly to accommodate a “mystery,” but all it really does is destroy the integrity of language without which we have no hope of learning truth about God or anything else.

Law of Non-Contradiction


This law is completely fundamental to logical and rational thinking, as every student of philosophy is taught. It states that “A” and “not A” cannot both be true at the same time and in the same relation. For instance, biologically speaking, Mark can be the father of his son Nathan and a son to his father Fred, but he cannot be biologically both a son and a father to the same person at the same time. So, regarding his relationship to his son Nathan, he cannot be both his son’s (biological) father and not his son’s biological father at the same time. He must be one or the other. Such is the reality of life.

This law of non-contradiction is often abandoned in theological discussions involving the Trinity or the natures of God and Christ. For instance, Jesus cannot be both man and not-man at the same time and in the same relationship to what defines a man. If we define “man” in a way that makes “man” distinguishable from “God,” as a member of the species ****-sapiens with various physical and mental limitations, Jesus Christ cannot be a man and not-man at the same time. If he is “man” and “God” at the same time, and if we preserve the integrity of the definitions of these terms, Jesus becomes the incarnation of a logical contradiction. The only way out of this dilemma is to propose a third category of being called “God-man,” which by logical necessity renders him incapable of being included in either the category of “man” or “God.” Though some may find this theologically and mystically compelling, it is logically contradictory, if the integrity of biblical language is upheld (as in, “God is not a man” – Num. 23:19).

The concept of the “integrity of the Word of God” depends upon this principle of non-contradiction. The Bible says of itself that it is “given by inspiration of God” (2 Tim. 3:16). This statement cannot be both true and false at the same time. It cannot be inspired of God and not inspired of God at the same time. That is a logical impossibility. Not holding rigorously to this principle as a logical necessity when approaching the Word of God has caused people to accept error and contradictions in the Bible, rather than diligently seeking the answers to the apparent contradictions. In fact, many people’s thinking is so fuzzy and blinded that they cannot even see apparent contradictions at all. Sadly, many of these are very “religious” people. An awful lot of fuzzy thinking is cloaked in religious terminology.

Logically, if the Bible is what it claims to be (the Word of God), it can contain no errors, contradictions or lies. God cannot lie nor contradict Himself. And if the Bible is His Word then it cannot contradict itself either. It cannot be true and false. It must be one or the other. As Jesus said, “the Scripture cannot be broken” (John 10:35). This is the kind of rigorous logic that must be applied to the Bible. Its integrity is always hanging in the balance, because the slightest flaw, imperfection or contradiction renders the book a forgery, and it is found to be a lie and not what it claims to be – the truth.

The Principle of the Excluded Middle


The final law is the “Principle of the Excluded Middle.'' This principle asserts that a statement in proposition form (A is B) is either true or false. There is no middle ground. If a statement is not completely true, then it is false. A “half-truth” is a lie. When applied to the Bible, it means that either all is God's Word or none of it. There is no other logically tenable position.

Jesus affirmed this law of the excluded middle when he argued that “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon” (Matt. 6:24).

Let us return to the example of the Trinitarian assertion that “Jesus is both God and man.” If words have meanings and “God” and “man” are not synonyms, then the statement “Jesus Christ is a man” is either true or false. To say he is both is a logical absurdity.
And we should also reconsider the statement of 2 Timothy 3:16 (“All scripture is given by inspiration of God”) in light of the principle of the excluded middle. We will lay aside for the moment any possible arguments concerning the canon of scripture or the nature of inspiration. This statement (“All scripture...”) is definitely in the Bible, a part of the whole. By sheer logic it must be either true or false. If it is false, then all scripture is not given by inspiration of God. In that case, at least two alternatives exist. Either no scripture is given by inspiration of God, or only some is inspired.

To say only “some” scripture is inspired puts one in a difficult position, because he is then stuck with the Herculean task of separating what is true from what is not without any consistent standard of judgment. Who is to say, coming to the book from the outside, what is inspired and what is not? Inspired verses do not show in red ink. If 2 Timothy 3:16 said “some scripture,” then doubt would be cast on every verse in the Bible, for how is one to know whether a particular verse is part of the “some scripture” or not? The only logical attitude to hold about the Bible is the one dictated by the Principle of the Excluded Middle. Either it is all God's Word or none of it can be trusted. It is upon this logical bedrock that true Biblical research and teaching must be built.

The difficulty has been that people have not been as rigorously honest intellectually and logically with God's Word as they have been in other areas of life. In law, for instance, a man on trial for writing bad checks is innocent until proven guilty. He claims that he is innocent, that he has not written bad checks. In the course of the trial, however, it is proven by means of handwriting analysis and the type of ink that was used that it was not only his pen but his handwriting and in fact his signature. The bank testifies that he had no money in his account at the times the checks were written. The court finds the man guilty, fines him a tidy sum to cover the court costs and the amount of the bad checks, and sends him home (or to jail) with a stern reprimand. He lied by claiming that he had the money to back up his checks when he did not.

Once it had been proven that he lied and did not have the resources to back up his check, is there any point to keeping the check, framing it and looking at it once a week to admire the signature and the well-written letters in the words “ten thousand dollars”? Certainly not! And yet this is exactly what people have done with the Bible. They have denied the Bible's claim of divine authorship because of apparent discrepancies or contradictions. Yet they cannot bring themselves to send the Bible to “jail,” so to speak, for being a fraud.

Because it contains so much practical wisdom and is incredibly useful and accurate as an historical document, its critics cannot bring themselves to utterly dispose of the book, because they know there is something there that makes it utterly unique among ancient literary artifacts. Yet to be logically consistent and honest, rendering the same justice in spiritual matters as in a court of law, the Bible must either be accepted for what it says it is, or if that can be disproved, thrown out altogether. It is dishonest to approach the Bible with any other attitude than what it demands, which is that it is the Word of God. To approach it only as a good book or an historical document or a book of myths, accepting the parts one likes and disregarding the rest, is to show oneself a fool.

The Bible is very much like a check. If it is “signed” or underwritten only by man it is a fraud, a forgery and a lie and should be discarded as not worth the paper it is printed on. It is either one or the other – man's word or God's Word. Logically, it must either be believed and respected, or be thrown out. There is no middle ground. Without the Principle of the Excluded Middle, man's mind will forever sit on a fence that is not there, avoiding the demands of logical reasoning and the necessary research that would enable him to make an informed decision. He will come to God's Word full of his own opinions, ideas and doubts, instead of accepting it on its terms and considering the possibility that it is true.

While he attempts to judge the Word of God by human standards, man is judged already by the Word of God as an illogical fool. The fruit of such thinking is tyranny, arrogance, bondage and cruelty. Productive, logical thinking allows for the Word of truth to be rightly understood, and where there is truth believed there is true freedom, love and joy.

Last edited by madnak; 03-02-2009 at 09:16 AM.
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02-26-2009 , 04:08 AM
tl;dr
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02-26-2009 , 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Butcho22
tl;dr
Yes it is long if that is what you meant but nevertheless if there is going to actually be conversations on this forum that are meaningful then these principles need and must be applied.
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02-26-2009 , 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Pletho
Yes it is long if that is what you meant but nevertheless if there is going to actually be conversations on this forum that are meaningful then these principles need and must be applied.

I know they are not applied by most on here, same reason no one reads some of my posts. They dont care enough about truth to really do what it takes to understand anything. Meaning to read.
Are you really so much wiser than the rest of us that we have to read your novels to understand what the truth is??

EDIT: Nice ninja edit.
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02-26-2009 , 05:40 AM
A more appropriate title would be: 3 Fundamental “laws of thought” as applied to the Bible, IMO.

From the Encyclopćdia Britannica:
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That the laws of thought are a sufficient foundation for the whole of logic, or that all other principles of logic are mere elaborations of them, was a doctrine common among traditional logicians. It has been shown, however, that these laws do not even comprise a sufficient set of axioms for the most elementary branch of logic, the propositional calculus, nor for the traditional theory of the categorical syllogism or the logic of terms.
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In 1920 Jan Łukasiewicz, a leading member of the Polish school of logic, formulated a propositional calculus that had a third truth-value, neither truth nor falsity, for Aristotle’s future contingents, a calculus in which the laws of contradiction and of excluded middle both failed. Other systems have gone beyond three-valued to many-valued logics—e.g., certain probability logics having various degrees of truth-value between truth and falsity.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...aws-of-thought
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02-26-2009 , 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by csma
A more appropriate title would be: 3 Fundamental “laws of thought” as applied to the Bible, IMO.

From the Encyclopćdia Britannica:


http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...aws-of-thought
Aristotle, the Greek philosopher credited with the discovery of logic, built his understanding upon three fundamental “laws of thought.”
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02-26-2009 , 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by csma
A more appropriate title would be: 3 Fundamental “laws of thought” as applied to the Bible, IMO.

From the Encyclopćdia Britannica:


http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...aws-of-thought
I guess that sound logical? Hmmm? NOT
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02-26-2009 , 02:34 PM
Aristotle lived in a time where formal mathematics didn't include the number 0. His formal logic system is not dynamic, timelined, quantified or fuzzy.

Just like the age-old bible, his age-old logic includes seeds of wisdom and insight, but it is very constricting and shortsighted to not incorporate the current times and methods when talking about fundamental "laws of thought". This may be acceptable (or even necessary) to religion, but not to science or philosophy.

Aristotle and Plato did have some things to say about God and morality, but I doubt you will find many theists or atheists who will agree with those very aged views.
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02-26-2009 , 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pletho
Yes it is long if that is what you meant but nevertheless if there is going to actually be conversations on this forum that are meaningful then these principles need and must be applied.
Did you write this or did you plagiarize it from somewhere else?
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02-26-2009 , 11:04 PM
ITT Pletho teaches his grandmother how to suck eggs, IMO.
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02-26-2009 , 11:21 PM
I, for one, am much smarter after reading the OP.

Pletho, even if the only difference you made was strengthening an already believer, at least you made a difference..
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02-27-2009 , 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BigErf
I, for one, am much smarter after reading the OP.

Pletho, even if the only difference you made was strengthening an already believer, at least you made a difference..
I promise you, you would be even smarter if you read csma's link and took any introductory course in formal or informal logic.
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02-27-2009 , 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Pletho
I guess that sound logical? Hmmm? NOT
EDIT: A more appropriate title for this thread would be: 3 Fundamental “laws of thought” as applied to the Bible, IMO.

The quotes from the Encyclopćdia Britannica were to show that while the three fundamental "laws of thought" are still very important, they are not infallible truths.
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02-27-2009 , 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Butcho22
tl;dr
Seriously, what kind of sado-masochist would take the time to read that?

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Originally Posted by BigErf
I, for one, am much smarter after reading the OP.

Pletho, even if the only difference you made was strengthening an already believer, at least you made a difference..
Sigh.
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02-27-2009 , 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad1970
Did you write this or did you plagiarize it from somewhere else?
What is your problem Brad? Do you have an issue with me?

I never said I wrote this, I said I posted this article, and I did because I believe it to be relevant to this whole forum. People are continually debating about God and the bible and need some rules of conduct for their thoughts. Meaning some logical standard to adhere to.

Aristotle is not my hero, as a matter of fact I have never read much of his stuff but IF this is what he used for logical deduction then he was a very wise person regarding trains of thought.

These laws/rules of thought can be used for anything, if not please show me what they can not be used for?

By agreeing with these laws of thought and all sticking to them the majority of the conversations/debates on here will be nipped in the bud. If those who are doing the debating are honest with themselves.

This is not meant to be directed at only non-christians this is for all involved because from what I can see these laws cannot be left out if you plan on having a honest and logical conversation.

Again I posted this article because I believe that many on here just skirt around these principles and say whatever comes to mind without making sure it falls under the catagory of logical, meaning doesn't make sense, doesn't add up ect...

Christians have a different knowledge source to base their beliefs upon compared to non-believers. Sure we can use the facts at hand from a physical stand point and should but when those facts blatantly contradict the written word of God then the physical facts have got to be deemed false from a Christian point of view, or least not 100% true, meaning their is something missing.

You can look at a tree and see it is a tree but do can you tell me HOW it became a tree, from where originally did it come?

Sure it came from a seed but where did the seed come from? Oh another tree, well How about that tree? Did a little wind and lightning a long time ago hit the dirt somewhere on the earth and create the first tree seed or tree? Same with people, a little wind and sand amd water mixed with lightning and now we have a man.

Example: The word says that there are two realms, physical and spiritual, yet from a five senses point of view one might say that they have never actually seen the spiritual realm and thus deem it not to exist. But a Christian who understands and knows the bible would have to say well according to your limited knowledge in the five senses there isn't a spiritual realm, but from my knowledge in the five senses, meaning my extra resource for knowledge, the Word of God, there is a spiritual realm.

People limit themselves and cut themselves off from this resource for knowledge thus they have limited understanding of the facts of life in general from Gods point of view.

Pletho
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02-27-2009 , 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Pletho
but when those facts blatantly contradict the written word of God then the physical facts have got to be deemed false from a Christian point of view, or least not 100% true, meaning their is something missing.
Surely if you believe anything is not 100% true, then you reject Aritotle's second law.
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02-27-2009 , 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Funology
Surely if you believe anything is not 100% true, then you reject Aritotle's second law.
Sorry I wrote something that did seemingly contradict, my bad I will reword it and explain when I have the time.

The key really is in understanding the difference between a FACT and TRUTH. There is a world of difference betwen the two.

I will explain later when I have the time even though I think you are having FUN.

I still should clarify and use my words as best as possible and try and explain and clarify if I think people will mis-read or not understand.

Many, many fights can be resolved if people were able to admit they were wrong or used the word wrongly or maybe didn't communicate properly.

Mis-communications are probably one of the number one things that start fights, someone says something and uses a phrase or word that another person might have a different understanding or definition of and voila you have an arguement solely because the one had a different understanding of a word or words being said, or they took it in a way they shouldn't have.

So again I will clarify my statment later. Funny guy. LOL!

Pletho

P.S. I like humor, no problem.
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02-27-2009 , 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Pletho

The Law of Identity, or “Logical Identity”


... if a statement is true, then it is true. To state the law symbolically, Pletho is gay.
fixed imo
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02-27-2009 , 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Pletho
The key really is in understanding the difference between a FACT and TRUTH.
I have no doubt that in your world there is a difference. But in the real world:

Fact: something that actually exists; reality; truth
Truth: an obvious or accepted fact
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02-28-2009 , 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Pletho
What is your problem Brad? Do you have an issue with me?

I never said I wrote this, I said I posted this article, and I did because I believe it to be relevant to this whole forum. People are continually debating about God and the bible and need some rules of conduct for their thoughts. Meaning some logical standard to adhere to.

No I don't have a problem with you. It was a simple freaking question, why get all defensive?

When you post something like this & do not post a link back to the source crediting the author, not only is that passing it off as your own work (i.e. lying), it's breaking the copyright laws (i.e. stealing).
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03-02-2009 , 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RoundGuy
I have no doubt that in your world there is a difference. But in the real world:

Fact: something that actually exists; reality; truth
Truth: an obvious or accepted fact
Reality via the Truth


People do not live in reality. Its impossible to live in reality. You cant FULLY live in pysical reality because you cant possibly know all the facts about the things in your life and around you and that you are dealing with.

There are 4 Types of Reality

1. Physical (Factual) Reality: Every person's physyical reality consists and is made up of millions upon millions upon millions of physical facts, the majority of these physical facts change from time to time. There is no known mechanism to gather all these physical facts, analyze them and keep up with the changes or to actually be sure that they are indeed physical facts rather than lies.

Example: After I had learned some of these truths I actually got to understand this from an experince in my life. I woke up one morning and went out side to go to my car in the parking lot of my apartment complex. As I rounded the corner and took a few steps I looked around where I believed I had parked the car and I saw NO CAR.

My first thought was "damn it someone towed my car away". I didn't even bother to investigate any further and I proceeded to go inside the house angry and emotional and was went to call the apartment manager and give them a piece of my mind. But I couldn't find the number. So I left to walk to the clubhouse and low and behold as I walked further out in the parking lot than I had before I began to see the corner of my car. I should have invistigated and scoured the parking lot better the first time before jumping so quickly.

It happened to be blocked in just the right place so that it looked as though it was not there. That was the reality that I was living in at that time and about to make a decision about. I know that is simple but I felt that you might need a practical example to help understand.

2. Perceived Reality: How one perceives the limited amount of physical facts of which one isaware and the false physical facts that one deems as true physical facts.

This is different for every individual in the whole world even if the physical facts are the same.

It is there perception, their percieved reality and ALL individuals' perceptions are tainted to some degree by emotion, associations from past experiences, predjudices (not racial), dishonesty and the ethical or moral codes that they were brought up with, including education. No matter how close or far their perceived reality is from the actual physical reality, their PERCEIVED reality is their reality and that is exactly where the live. Whatever they deem to be the true physical facts is the reality they live in.

This is where the major majority of ALL people unbelievers and believers alike live in their lives. All people are brought up some way or another and has learned things by ASSOCIATION which builds a multiplicity of predjudices in their mind, pre-conceived ideas that aren't really right.

People are emotional and the more emotional they the more the facts get muddy and the more irrational they are with their logic. To top it off people are dishonest not just to others but to themelves. Emotional predjudiced dishonest people change the facts and cheat so that what they perceive to be reality is not even real physical facts.

So they make their decisions upon physical facts that really aren't facts, true or accurate.

This can be proven simply by using food as an example. You may decide what you want to eat but you have not got all the facts about what is available. You can take all your emotions and predjudices likes and dislikes and still not have the facts about food, their maybe something better out there that you don't know about that you may like or something you haven't tried yet.

So you make a decision based on the limited amount of facts you have about food and your predjudices and emotions about food and what you like but there happens to be something better out there. To you your decision may be the best but its really just the best thing that you KNOW about.

All of life is like this. No one knows all the Physical Facts. On top of this all you have the DISHONESTY of others who give you your information and knowledge to make and base your decisions on.

3. Distored Perceived Reality: All destorted perceived reality is influenced by the devil spirit realm. A persons percieved reality can be distorted to the point that they live a life not even close to the real physical facts. Distorted perception of reality causes great suffering, misery and failure.

Prime example is Howard Hughes in the last parts of his life. I could give many other examples but this post will get way too long.

4. Spiritual Truth: Spirtual truth is reality both in the physical and spiritual realms. Spiritual reality is permanent, unchangeable and unalterable. You do not recieve the great benifits of the ALL TRUTH, spiritual truths in the physical realm unless you BELIEVE the spiritual truths. Then they become your reality and give you the ability and power to change the physical factual world when it is neccessary. When you live spiritual truth, your reality is GODLY and you will reign in this life life by way of Jesus Christ.

There is great untapped power and wisdom in believing God and trusting God's Word. Jesus Christ believed in God and trusted God and did many mighty works and miracles then layed down his life for you and I so that we might decide to believe in the ressurection of Jesus Christ when it is spoken to us and become sons of God with eternal life by way of Jesus Christ's life, death and ressurection.
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03-02-2009 , 02:19 AM
plagiarism perma-ban

(crosses fingers)


Pletho,

I realize you can't see the humor in you posting all this crap about people not really wanting to know the truth, but trust me when I say that it is LOL funny.
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03-02-2009 , 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Butcho22
plagiarism perma-ban

(crosses fingers)


Pletho,

I realize you can't see the humor in you posting all this crap about people not really wanting to know the truth, but trust me when I say that it is LOL funny.

Laugh all you want, God and I will have the last laugh no matter what you do or say unless you change. Which I doubt, I honestly hope you do though, that way you will live forever in a perfect spiritual body.

Read the bible, people always tried to stop Jesus Christ from speaking the truth in a multiplicity of ways. If they ban me for something that I did not say I wrote, but posted as an article that others should read and happens to be relevant, then so be it.

I am not in the wrong about the truth, maybe I should have put "this is not my article", either way I didn't say it was either nor did I sign it as my own. As a matter of fact the guy who wrote it tells you his name in the article. So have at it. By the way he is a believer also I am sure you wouldn't want another one of us on this forum disproving your illogical beliefs.

Pletho (this is my post)

Oh and by the way, why don't you try True Christianity out for a few years, without any reservations or anything holding you back mentally. With an open unbiased give God's Word a fair shake attitude. I guess because you like you said really aren't interested in TRUTH, your content living in a lie because it agrees with you and all you have been taught or learned by way of your own self.
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03-02-2009 , 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Pletho
Reality via the Truth


People do not live in reality. Its impossible to live in reality. You cant FULLY live in pysical reality because you cant possibly know all the facts about the things in your life and around you and that you are dealing with.

There are 4 Types of Reality

1. Physical (Factual) Reality: Every person's physyical reality consists and is made up of millions upon millions upon millions of physical facts, the majority of these physical facts change from time to time. There is no known mechanism to gather all these physical facts, analyze them and keep up with the changes or to actually be sure that they are indeed physical facts rather than lies.

Example: After I had learned some of these truths I actually got to understand this from an experince in my life. I woke up one morning and went out side to go to my car in the parking lot of my apartment complex. As I rounded the corner and took a few steps I looked around where I believed I had parked the car and I saw NO CAR.

My first thought was "damn it someone towed my car away". I didn't even bother to investigate any further and I proceeded to go inside the house angry and emotional and was went to call the apartment manager and give them a piece of my mind. But I couldn't find the number. So I left to walk to the clubhouse and low and behold as I walked further out in the parking lot than I had before I began to see the corner of my car. I should have invistigated and scoured the parking lot better the first time before jumping so quickly.

It happened to be blocked in just the right place so that it looked as though it was not there. That was the reality that I was living in at that time and about to make a decision about. I know that is simple but I felt that you might need a practical example to help understand.

2. Perceived Reality: How one perceives the limited amount of physical facts of which one isaware and the false physical facts that one deems as true physical facts.

This is different for every individual in the whole world even if the physical facts are the same.

It is there perception, their percieved reality and ALL individuals' perceptions are tainted to some degree by emotion, associations from past experiences, predjudices (not racial), dishonesty and the ethical or moral codes that they were brought up with, including education. No matter how close or far their perceived reality is from the actual physical reality, their PERCEIVED reality is their reality and that is exactly where the live. Whatever they deem to be the true physical facts is the reality they live in.

This is where the major majority of ALL people unbelievers and believers alike live in their lives. All people are brought up some way or another and has learned things by ASSOCIATION which builds a multiplicity of predjudices in their mind, pre-conceived ideas that aren't really right.

People are emotional and the more emotional they the more the facts get muddy and the more irrational they are with their logic. To top it off people are dishonest not just to others but to themelves. Emotional predjudiced dishonest people change the facts and cheat so that what they perceive to be reality is not even real physical facts.

So they make their decisions upon physical facts that really aren't facts, true or accurate.

This can be proven simply by using food as an example. You may decide what you want to eat but you have not got all the facts about what is available. You can take all your emotions and predjudices likes and dislikes and still not have the facts about food, their maybe something better out there that you don't know about that you may like or something you haven't tried yet.

So you make a decision based on the limited amount of facts you have about food and your predjudices and emotions about food and what you like but there happens to be something better out there. To you your decision may be the best but its really just the best thing that you KNOW about.

All of life is like this. No one knows all the Physical Facts. On top of this all you have the DISHONESTY of others who give you your information and knowledge to make and base your decisions on.

3. Distored Perceived Reality: All destorted perceived reality is influenced by the devil spirit realm. A persons percieved reality can be distorted to the point that they live a life not even close to the real physical facts. Distorted perception of reality causes great suffering, misery and failure.

Prime example is Howard Hughes in the last parts of his life. I could give many other examples but this post will get way too long.

4. Spiritual Truth: Spirtual truth is reality both in the physical and spiritual realms. Spiritual reality is permanent, unchangeable and unalterable. You do not recieve the great benifits of the ALL TRUTH, spiritual truths in the physical realm unless you BELIEVE the spiritual truths. Then they become your reality and give you the ability and power to change the physical factual world when it is neccessary. When you live spiritual truth, your reality is GODLY and you will reign in this life life by way of Jesus Christ.

There is great untapped power and wisdom in believing God and trusting God's Word. Jesus Christ believed in God and trusted God and did many mighty works and miracles then layed down his life for you and I so that we might decide to believe in the ressurection of Jesus Christ when it is spoken to us and become sons of God with eternal life by way of Jesus Christ's life, death and ressurection.

Back to the top, so people can have a chance to read it before it gets buried by Buthcho with nonsense.
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03-02-2009 , 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Pletho
Oh and by the way, why don't you try Islam out for a few years, without any reservations or anything holding you back mentally. With an open unbiased give God's Word a fair shake attitude. I guess because you like you said really aren't interested in TRUTH, your content living in a lie because it agrees with you and all you have been taught or learned by way of your own self.
Why don't you try Islam our for a few years?

I guess because you like you said really aren't interested in TRUTH, your content living in a lie because it agrees with you and all you have been taught or learned by way of your own self. (kept misspellings for authenticity)
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