You disagree that most Christians are ignorant?

Why do you say this? Can you elaborate on what parts of omniscience is contradictory with free will?

Sure, it's quite simple really. An omniscient God will know every choice we can make, and will make, and thus we are committed to never making God wrong - we do not have the power to make a choice God can't already know we will make. So we have the illusion of free will, but nothing more in the theistic worldview.

God is not constrained by time as we are in our present existence.

Who says that an omniscient god can know the choices that we are going to make with a 100% certainty?

The way that I see it, if we are truly moral free will agents then before we make a choice, the outcome of that choice does not exist to be known.

So an omniscient being would know all of reality, but before we make the choice it is not in reality to be known, therefore the being cannot know it.

In other words, if the outcome does not exist, then how can you expect an omniscient being to know something that does not exist?

Can an omniscient being know that there is a monkey sitting next to me, if is reality there is no monkey sitting next to me?

Are you asserting that your God is not omniscient, that He doesn't know what choices I will make?

I would also add that to this that God could reasonably require one to read his word. I don't think God would expect someone to love him without first getting to know him, and by reading his word a person should get to know him.


I would also say that if somebody earnestly wants to believe, then I recommend the following prayer-

http://www.allaboutgod.com/prayer-of-salvation.htm

"Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen."

I am asserting that before you make the choice, there is nothing to know. How can an omniscient being know something that does not exist?

again, can an omniscient being know that there is a monkey sitting next to me, if in reality there is no monkey?

Okay, let me ask it another way. Does God already know what I'm having for dinner tonight?

To answer your monkey question (if I understand correctly): how can ANYBODY know or say there is a monkey next to you when there isn't?

Not with 100% certainty. there is more that goes into it, but we will wait to discuss further once I get my first point across.

They cannot. that is the point. Now do you see how this plays into the choices scenario?

No, sorry - I don't follow you. An omniscient God would know everything infinitely back in time, unless he has some sort of "limited" omniscience. I'm under the impression that your worldview asserts an all-knowing God.

Knowing everything back in time is not the same thing as knowing everything forward in time.

how do you suggest that an omniscient being is to know the future that does not exist?

I think you're muddying it up more than it needs to be. If your God doesn't know what I'm having for dinner tonight, then he isn't omniscient. That's all I'm saying.

No. What you are having for dinner does not exist in reality. Just like the monkey. So how can an omniscient being know something that does not exist in reality?

Tough on granting prayers or rewarding the righteous when you have no idea what the situation will be in the future. No use guiding me into a university that will have burnt down by then. We'd just both be guessing at what's going to happen ... no need/use to ask for guidance.

So He doesn't have total omniscience - I think we're saying the same thing in different ways.

That is just not true. You make this statement based on the assumption that certain things cannot be willed by God. You are also assuming that God does not understand probabilities. Meaning that for God not to know something with 100% certainty, then it is impossible to know with 99% certainty. Or even that not knowing exactly how something will happen, that he cannot know what will happen.

The chair that you are currently sitting on is full of particles. All of those particles are currently in motion and no one can know the exact movement or path of the individual particles, but as a whole we do know that the chair remains solid. So it is possible to know the over all picture without knowing the outcome of each individual being.

No we are not.

Are you saying that because a being does not know about the monkey sitting next to me, that of course does not actually exist, that being is no longer omniscient?

Does a total omniscient being have to know that that does not exist?

but does he know whether the university will have burnt down ... I don't want to waste a year.

What monkey? You said yourself there is no monkey.

What was the cause of the fire?

Was it because someone choose to burn it down, or was it because of an electrical fire?

what fire?

Correct. So if a choice has not been made, then there is no outcome of that choice.

If a free will agent has a choice between A, B, and C. B is not the outcome of the choice before the agent chooses B. Therefore B does not exist as the outcome. Therefore the omniscient being cannot know that B is the outcome.

For something to have burned down, there has to be a fire. Otherwise it did not burn.

but it hasn't happened yet, it may not happen, how could I know the cause?