So you made this thread because you didn't want other people's opinions, you only wanted to be proven right?

I think that post says more than I ever could about this, OP.

Roy clearly isn't a scammer. I don't know how you could ever think he was. Maybe you could think he's a bad coach, but actively scamming? I haven't seen anything to remotely suggest that.

I don't see how your second sentence is even relevant to anything. It's not Roy's problem that you have a chronic disease. As I understand you sent about 20-30 emails between each other before you paid him and you have managed to get yourself through a bachelor's degree so I don't see why Roy should have had cause to turn you away. It's not like he took thousands of you that you couldn't afford and kept doing it despite the fact that you weren't improving.

Think about how that sounds. Are you wishing a chronic illness on me or just 'hoping' that I know someone with one? fwiw one of my grandmas had parkinsons for all of the 16 years I knew her and another had dementia for the last ~6 months of her life. My great aunt is currently battling with dementia. But i don't see how any of that is relevant.

I made this thread because Roy told me to, and I kept it anonymous and brief in the first place to see if others thought it was good value. Roy decided to take it much further than that.

And what you you advise your grandmother if she decided she wanted to play poker and was being offered coaching services at $200 per hour after explaining her illness to the coach?[/QUOTE]

They're both dead. When under the disease neither would have been capable of even asking, let alone send what I'm assuming were at least vaguely intelligible emails. The fact that you are doing a masters and were able to (I'm assuming) ask about coaching etc in a rational manner means Roy shouldn't have been expected to turn you away. If my grandmother was already playing PLO50, then maybe coaching would have been the way to go but if she really was just starting out I would recommend Jeff Hwang's books to her, which provide a decent enough foundation.

Roy isn't here to advise you (until you're paying for his services ldo), he is the seller. He is there to sell. The fact that he gave you any sort of advice is a bonus and a sign that Roy is a good person. Roy sounds like the least pushy most helpful salesperson ever.

No, I was just being as insensitive and inconsiderate as you. People don't understand what it's like living with a chronic illness and how it affects your decision making, but people like you feel the need to comment about how we all need to take responsibility for our own decisions.

So what you you advise your grandmother if she decided she wanted to play poker and was being offered coaching services at $200 per hour after explaining her illness to the coach?

When asking if it's good value, you really need to include who the coach is. As soon as people see it's Roy, the majority are going to tell you it's good value.

Roy is about furthest thing away from scammer and has provided tons of great advice to the community free of charge. Maybe he should have waited til you formally accused him before preemptively releasing the emails, but he correctly anticipated you were about to start a ****storm and try to drag his name through the dirt, and I don't see how any of the info was really sensitive or personal or anything? What does it matter that a small portion of the 2p2 community now knows "Botnic11" has a health problem or w/e? Esp when I didn't even notice it when glancing over his post, he has refrained from posting emails that he thought revealed personal stuff since, and you have brought it up numerous times in the posts since making a big deal out of it?

You on the other hand are trying to drag a well-respected and productive member of the community's name through the dirt over a service you paid for and received.

It sounds like things are not going well for you life-wise atm though, and I understand life can be very tough, and sometimes you want to take your frustrations out and try to reclaim lost resources when you didn't get something you were hoping for and things are already bleak. So while you are out of line, I can't say I blame you, and wish you the best of luck turning things around in your life.

fwiw/ This makes you sound like a douche, regardless of your situation, and I can't see it doing anything to sway anyone to your side.

Roy cannot be expected to know about your condition or how it affects your decision making. If you walk into a store and buy an item you can't afford, the salespeople aren't going to ask you if you're in a mental state to buy it or if you can afford it. I'm not saying you can't, but if you can't make responsible decisions you need a carer or someone who can for you, that person is not Roy.

They're both dead. When under the disease neither would have been capable of even asking, let alone send what I'm assuming were at least vaguely intelligible emails. The fact that you are doing a masters and were able to (I'm assuming) ask about coaching etc in a rational manner means Roy shouldn't have been expected to turn you away. If my grandmother was already playing PLO50, then maybe coaching would have been the way to go but if she really was just starting out I would recommend Jeff Hwang's books to her, which provide a decent enough foundation.

Roy isn't here to advise you (until you're paying for his services ldo), he is the seller. He is there to sell. The fact that he gave you any sort of advice is a bonus and a sign that Roy is a good person. Roy sounds like the least pushy most helpful salesperson ever.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly my point. Lets say they were at earlier stages of their disease and still functioning but impaired. I had to quit Masters as a result of my disease and I explained that. But that's not the real issue, i'm just trying to point out how insensitive you are. I was playing PLO50 and I was losing, the point is that Roy should have at least made a recommendation to use other avenues before proceeding with more $200 per hour instruction. I wasn't happy with his service and I complained to him. Now here I am defending myself to people like you. I'll never stop either. As I said, there are people who will see my side. Not 19/20 year olds like you, but older folk in their 30's plus will have had more life experience and a bit more understanding of what i'm talking about.

And this makes it clear you are a douche yourself. I told him about my condition. Go away idiot.

Yeah no one on these forums knows you OP. Just don't use this account again (make a new one if you want) if you don't want your arbitrary forum name assigned to your condition.

Anyway, whatever, i'm not posting anymore to this nonsense. It's a complete waste of my time and energy. All of Roy's mates will come out in support, but there are some who will see my side no matter how much clutter is filled in.

It is not his place to do so and it wasn't 'more' instruction, it was a one off. Nice job on stereotyping, who is the one being insensitive now?

I don't like to brag because it makes me sound like a tool but I have an IQ of over 160 and yes, you correctly guessed my age, meaning that I'm at my peak mental ability, making that score even more significant. Your ad hominem arguments will not work because I am not an idiot and I can see through them. I have studied psychology (not particularly far) and like I said, I have had family with brain related illnesses so, although I know less about them than you, I know much more than the average person about the brain and psychology, and so I don't think that your condescension is fair. If you think people will see your side because they 'have more life experience' then you are sadly mistaken.

I don't know Roy. I know of him, but I don't know him. I am not his 'mate' (no offense Roy). I read your posts, I read his posts, I reached my own conclusion and my conclusion is this: Roy did nothing wrong.

From the information posted here I'd say that Roy has put much more effort into this whole subject then he got paid for.

*OP contacted Roy, not the other way around.
*Roy has NO obligation to recommend other coaches. Taking parallels here with doctors etc is just plain stupid.

/thread

I'm no friend of the coaches on here but it looks like you wanted the coaching/analysis but you don't want to pay for it. You have a small point that maybe you should not have been taken on and I am very unimpressed that the coach posted your private and personal details on here but you should accept responsibility for your own actions in taking the expensive lesson in the first place. If you can afford it, which you say you can, just chalk it up to experience.

If you made the decision to hire McKinsey to do a piece of consulting work for you and afterwards discovered that Bain could have done the same piece of work for half the money... You didn't buy therapy. You bought consulting services.

Roy does not owe you a refund, an apology or anything else. Whether you like it or not, you bought a service after being well informed of said service.

I'd suggest to you that if you have enough introspect to come to the conclusion that you're prone to making bad decisions, then online poker as a whole is not a good place for you.

lol at this even being a thread. OP ur lucky roy even wasted his time responding to ur nonsense in such a professional manner

You seem to think there is a recipe for poker that if you paid Roy $200 for, would turn you into a winning player.

Instead of just rehashing the same ole crying and whining, how about we try something.

Post the stats (not the 3k write up as Roy would probably not want that) that Roy analyzed of your game. Then post the same stats for the hands you played afterwards. Let us decide if you didn't get your money's worth. Point is, if you ignored his advice and continue to play the same style and continued losing, that's not his fault.

Oh and BTW, your illness and Masters have nothing to do with this so I fail to see why you need to mention it. If you're so intelligent and educated, please grace us with the definition of profession. I'm fairly certain that it's not based on how much $/hr is being charged.

I should point out I'm not a friend of Roy's and have no idea who he is (I don't play PLO). I just came across this thread last night while I was bored so my previous replies aren't biased in anyway. I thought I should add a little more though...

I seen the original email you sent to Roy when he posted it and you mentioned having a medical condition in a very brief way and certainly never mentioned the effects of it etc. Since then you have mentioned them all yourself on this thread so I feel it's okay to discuss them in some way. First of all, if it causes you to make bad decisions then why are you playing poker? It's possibly the worst thing you can do and secondly, have you had refunds for any other services or purchases you have made (since I'm assuming this isn't the only 'bad' decision you have made)?

Tthric. Lock, imo.

I don't know Roy at all; everything I know is what I've read in this thread.

OP, you have no case for a refund here, IMO. He's a professional selling a service, and what you told him led him to reasonably believe you may benefit from his service. He's under no obligation to recommend other services or advice, and he went above and beyond in giving you a ton of free advice and recommendations prior to even charging you for the 1 hour of DB analysis.

Sorry you feel the way you do, but he did nothing wrong that I can see, and you should really rethink if you should even be in poker at all, and if so what you want to get out of it. Someone with difficultly making rational decisions shouldn't blame others for what he considers the poor outcome of those decisions.

Edit: BTW, constantly bringing up your medical condition makes you come across really badly here, OP. Ultimately if you are compromised in some way, it is up to you to figure out how to live and work with that, not the rest of society. And I say that as a person who also suffers from a chronic progressive medical condition. So take some responsibility for yourself and stop trying to pass the buck onto an innocent person. You did some research and decided to go with this service. That's on you and no one else, and you got exactly what he promised (as far as I can see).

im grunching but coming from someone whos coached many, if my rate was $200/hr id probably turn down a 100nl player, and give him the honest truth that theres way better ways to spend his money, espepcially when he says he onlyk has a $800 roll.. that seems shady to me.

secondly, its his fault for paying, but $200 for a database review seems over the top and it really doesnt matter how good of a poker player the guy doing the review is. i am bias because i think'db reviews' are for the most part a crock of **** that seem to appeal to mostly weaker players in look for a quick fix.

Nobody who maxes out the mana aura with glacius by level 7 could take advantage of another human being.

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