I'm not pretending I get the money because I do hard work. But what I'm trying to do is let people know that this whole "you didn't do any work, you don't deserve anything" philosophy that people are taking on is completely false. Do I deserve as much as I'm making, no, but that's open to debate. Baseball players stand in the field for 3 hours a day, and come to the plate 4 times a day, and they make 10m+ a year. Do they deserve that much? Probably not, but the person who is paying them felt they do. If BCP felt like giving out this money, and I was the one who stepped in and put in the work it took to secure it, then I'm not going to feel bad about it all. But I'm certainly not gonna sit here and let ppl claim I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. You guys make it sound like I just sit around all day and people just magically appear on my player list since BF.

this is the image i gathered from reading your posts before all of this affiliate stuff came out. if you're mad about your image, look at yourself first

the bragging is bad, i agree. I try to only do that around people I'm friends with, but it occasionally leaks over to this forum (where I felt like I was friends with most readers). I do however tend to forget that what I write here gets read by a lot of people. I need to start remembering that before i post. I also need to remember that people here hate other people that make more money than them, especially for what they consider ABSOLUTELY NO WORK AT ALL.

the bragging aside tho, I don't see how anything that's come to light here should make me the reason you hate affiliates. the reason you hate affiliates out of all this should be DJO. He's starbucks and everyone else is the local mom and pop coffee shop. He's the reason that all the other affiliates are sending emails by the dozens to websites saying things like "I am losing players because someone is giving them 60% and I can't compete with that". He's the main reason why scumminess is now associated with affiliating.

It's not fair for the people who can't offer the deal because even though they want to offer a better deal to keep their players they can't.

Al Capone controlled the best alcohol and Beef in most of the country. If you went to the law to tell on him youd end up dead. And no one has New York Strip and a whisky. Everyone loses.

This is my random comment before I leave.

Fair doesn't matter.


Are you ****ing kidding me.

You're scum.

Plain and simple.


You've made a huge mistake, mostly b/c you're far more of a child than a businessman, and now you're trying to flip it on to Danny.


Admit that you've cost the poker community money b/c you're a selfish prick, apologise, and then **** off. You dont play any more. This is not the affiliate thread. Leave.


Edit:
Also what you describe as scummy is just you whining due to a false sense of entitlement.

i mentioned this earlier, but i don't care who's fault it is at this point. it all just sucks people can't get along and work with players

Agree 110%

Disagree 108%


It doesn't make sense to me why the sites don't allocate x% of the players' rake to affiliates and let them do whatever they want with that %. Setting a minimum rakeback % would be sensible so some player doesn't get uber boned but having a maximum is strange to me. If the market were set up like this then it wouldn't be so inefficient with several guys making unreasonable profits for the amount of work they do. All of these obscene affiliate commissions would be re-distributed to the player pool, with higher value players who are patient and willing to negotiate getting more of it.

its not being higher-than-thou saying that i want everyone in the poker community to have the best deal possible. I would prefer any player in the world to make more money, and sites/affiliates to make less. Better for everyone.

Disco, im laying off cause i know you didnt mean to **** anything up, but you did. And your way of dealing with anything is terrible.

Also, im 100% on board with your worth what someones willing to pay you. but dont try to justify the 30 minutes of work you do to sign up players its lolworthy

The obvious solution is to sign up with the cool affiliate who has 3% of the amount of players as the others, gives free coaching and who still beats/plays poker!

You did cost current players money because future players won't earn as much in rakeback which directly effects the amount of money available to be earned at the tables. Players bust their rolls faster etc etc. Even if it is a below average reg missing out in the future. That's still a below average reg who could have a larger roll, start more tables and play more tables.

On a side note, it's clear your first giant post was for damage control. I understand, you are running a business, made a mistake and are trying to mitigate damages. However, each post since has been totally the opposite tone and message showing how badly you are being effected by all of this.....your not good at public relations....or at running a business apparently..

PS <--- Caseace48 (was too lazy to reactivate my account) I'm just another break even rakeback player trying to get a good deal...

As I have said earlier, all guys like djo really accomplish is making the sites margins so thin on players that they truly do risk going broje by offering these deals. Its not sustainable for the poker room. If you support this stuff and support players making as much as possible and the poker site making as little as possibly then you are essentially supporting the destruction of the poker site. Poker sites going broke and not having enough money to pay out player balances if they get doj'd is not good for anyone. There has to be some sort of middle ground here so that players still get acceptable rakeback and the poker room makes enough money off its players to sustain itself.

missed this at first, but just wanted to emphasize!

I agree that competition is healthy for the players of course -- I was late to the game and it's not like we affiliates do much work so I have no issue offering extra rb/big rewards for refs/free coaching/etc. to prospective players.

The real issue is Lock's (and others) management, not affiliates offering certain deals

Would have SNAP signed up with malice if i knew coaching came with it

also, malice is back?

double edit. nvm, old avatar, new sn.

yep, the little affiliate always has to offer the best =]

try to steal me?

Nah, I just let the smart ones who want the best come to me

eh the whole pokersites go broke would imply they dont segregate funds.

even if broke, players should get paid back fully thats what its suppose to be.

if disco's said theory is true then fukourlives. btw disco if u keep saying that, people gonna think u know that its not segregated and start questionng u.

as far as them getting so broke that they shutdown and we lose a site to play on i dont think thats true too. these special deals, at the end of the day, are still approved by management. if they are not smart enough to realize they need x amount to pay staff, profit, etc. then thats their fault. and if one site can't offer the same deals as others they go bankrupt. and the better site wins. thats business.

jfc this is so rediculous and makes absolutely no sense if you take longer than 5 seconds to think about it. You realize .001 is greater than 0 right?

wasnt the reason you initially contacted the guy who hurt your feelings because you wanted to be able to offer this same % as djo?

How is it that an affiliate can give out a rakeback deal that impacts the margin of the poker room without the room knowing about it? This makes no sense to me. If the 'special deal' comes out of the affiliate's cut, it's their margin that gets shaved.

And if 60% is possible doesn't that mean that the site is giving 2/3rds or more of it's rake out to the affiliates? That seems crazy.

Am I missing something here about how this whole thing works?

So I go away for a few days and come back to this. :-)

A few nuggets from the old man...

* it's great if you enjoy something someone else did, but the majority of your life's greatest moments shouldn't be what other people did.

* Cake had much worse affiliate deals than Merge. As part of the transition, it's not clear if Lock would have eventually downgraded future sign-ups anyway so that they can create a level playing field with the existing member sites. So it may not necessarily be Disco's fault... it probably would have happened eventually.

* Don't brag about making money at something that can easily be taken away. Similar common-sense lessons include: don't give away ALL your poker secrets in a coaching video, don't agitate the fish to leave the table, etc.

* if you can't compete on price, there are other ways to be competitive.

* it costs nothing to be an affiliate (on most sites) - just a few minutes of your time filling out a form. If you play a lot, you could be better off just signing yourself up - so see if being an affiliate makes sense to you (it may not, since higher volume affiliates get higher kickbacks). A few small volume grinders working together can be > 1 high volume grinder (aka Teamwork). Know what your options are - your best option may still be one of the higher volume affiliates.

* You can order Portillo's thru the interwebs. Someone sent us a shipment from Lou Malnati's last month, but I didn't think it was a good as Portillo's. Don't get grossed out by the fat - it's the fat that makes it taste good.

I'm probably missing a few things I was thinking while reading the posts from the past few days, but I've had a nasty cold for over two weeks, and I'm kind of dizzy.

dear disco,

i, like everyone else am going to post the equivalent of steaming a coiler on your face but if you take the time to think about it, it should help you moving forward. everyone makes mistakes but you should take the opportunity to learn from them. you failed in this dept from the vizer situation

tough love

you're a manchild. your perspective is totally self centered, you turn any sort of conflict or disagreement in to a child like mud slinging contest, and you have some sort of delusional sense of entitlement. you're living in the discoverse

players are leaving for a reason. if djo wasn't offering a better deal then they wouldn't leave. do players support people competing to offer them a better RB deal? thats a stupid question
maybe he got this idea from cable companies, phone services, internet providers etc etc etc

djo could be a scumbag but competing for business and offering better deals is something the players want and should advocate. a bunch of us got locked in to ****ty RB deals with FT and it was very annoying and frustrating to deal with
from being on the outside looking in, the only one giving any of the affiliate game any sort of black eye is you at this point
poker sites are the ones who offer these deals and have control. if you're trying to tell people that you care about them by having them pay more rake youre just flat out lying. you fought to get the 60% yourself and if you could offer 85% you'd be shouting it from the mountain tops and telling everyone its the best thing to ever happen to online poker

those are all examples of you being totally blinded by your personal bias. everyones biased but you're on a child like level

being impulsive, "real", and not giving a fvck are probably near the top of the list of things your friends like about you but you need to filter yourself and grow up when it comes to things of a more serious nature. starting a feud with the industry leader is short sighted and childish. being a douche to the guy repping the company you're "affiliated" with is flat out dumb and the "he started it" attitude is ridiculous. posting (on an account that can easily be traced to your real identity) about racist views in 2012 is borderline ******ed.

everyones stubborn to some degree. i highly recommend you hit the reset button, take a step back, and honestly assess things. i was going to say "sticking to your guns" would be childish but unfortunately being stubborn is a life long

For my sake don't change a thing, you post a lot of entertaining stuff and this is like watching the situation and ronnie fight over sammie the sweetheart. but for your cause, think about it.

oh and honeybadger you gotta post more often bro

lololol see how the shill responds to that.

and why do you keep saying deals djo has can bankrupt the site and it would be his fault disco? that makes no ****ing sense. djo cant force a site to agree to a bad deal. i assume he makes a deal with the site, then he makes a deal with his players. if the sites make a bad deal for themselves that causes them to go bankrupt, how the **** do you blame djo for that?

also, as said, you are implying that these sites could potentially ftp all of their players if they go bankrupt. im sure merge likes one of their affiliates hinting at things like this in public.

Let's talk about hockey