Wow you're like a broken record with this argument. Will you please quote the part of the TOS you are referencing? I just skimmed over it and didn't see anything regarding ghosting mentioned but maybe I missed it.

Sigh I wish FTP would find a way to kill PTR once and for all. Make all tables rush one time!

You've helped me out once, it's my turn to return the favor.


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/pr...gnore&u=160832

dont u dare!!!

$#^Q@@#%@%@%#@ poker

that is all. break even grinding just to put into hands for the prop is so -ev.

jesus ****ing christ.

1) les, just shut the **** up dude. seriously, im sorry you hate the ****ing world but nobody actually gives a ****. its funny in a pathetic kind of way that you feel the need to berate others to feel better about yourself, your ******** only gets attention because its comedic relief, just shut the **** up seriously its tired.

2) seriously anyone who buys HHs to "get an edge" how about getting better at poker? datamining is gay, its just ****ing gay and the only people who do it are people who admit that they suck at poker and are too goddamn lazy to get better at it.

i may not have the best WR in the world but i pride myself on my capacity to learn the game and improve as much as i can without finding cheat sheets or shortcuts. i <3 this forum and learn a lot from it but some of the **** ive been reading lately is making me sick.

It's called collusion. When players play against you, but not actually you, that would be cheating. And it would be 5 times worst then buying HH.

sharing hole cards when you both plays at the same table and "sharing" hole cards when only one of you actually plays is quite a different things

sweating someone during a coaching session is ok. why? there is a word. that word is INTENT. learn it, use it, remember it.

That quote is referring to if 2 players were playing in the same game and sharing what their hole cards were. That's way different than ghosting.

Yeah sharing hands while playing at same table is obviously way worse than buying hands which is way worse than ghosting imo. But then again murder is way worse than colluding and that doesn't make collusion ok.

Feel free to PM support and ask them if ghosting is allowed. I will be willing to bet you $100 that its not allowed.

I am pretty sure it states it somewhere, i just don't have time to find as i am going to sleep right now.

why the **** would you want to buy 1 million hands anyway on a site you're already playing? No, wait. Why would you want to buy a million hands, period?

I also think ghosting is pretty bad. Say you're zach or DR or w/e, playing a 400NL table and you're on the table with jasons who is actually being coached by the best 25/50 reg out there. Wouldn't be very nice, ethically or practically, to think you're playing one person but to actually be playing another. Even overlooking the obvious skill difference, you have reads on jasons, but you're not playing him so your reads are wrong, but you don't know it.

Obv ghosting doesn't mean the other person is making the decisions for you, but in a lot of spots they alter your decisions showing you a better line or w/e so in effect your opponents are, in fact, playing the person ghosting you. Which is not cool IMO

You got it wrong.

Your edge vs other players is 10 times bigger if you are being ghosted by a great player then if you are buying HH. Sklansky has a good argument in DUCY?

.
This quote refers to ghosting and sweating as well.

On a lighter note: http://www.theage.com.au/national/un...026-171dt.html

You guys are killing me. The word is INTENT. If you sweat someone coaching wise its deemed ok right? But if you ghost someone at a final table with a profit sharing agreement its not ok right? There isn't much of a difference there at all is there? Yet one is cool but the other isn't? Its either some hypocritical ******** or peoples intentions actually matter.

rake at 100nl is way bigger than 1.4ptbb, so its like saying he is fat when wearing a medieval armoury imo

what exactly are you saying? how do the intents differ in the two situations?

I see it as:

1) Ghosting as a coach you're helping student make the best decisions because you've been paid for that service

2)Ghosting as a profit sharing agreement you're helping other person make the best decisions because you MIGHT get money if he cashes

You can forget the word intent. It's all about TOS. It does not saying anything about intent. If in TOS it didn't state that buying hand histories or datamining was not allowed, Vizer would not care in first place.

According to TOS, being ghosted gives you an unfair advantage over other players, thus you are cheating them out of their money. If you are against people using hand histories that they did not play in, then you also have to be against ghosting.

this IMO.

clearly applies to coaching too

cools stories bros

intents differ hugely.

1) coach sweats student and offers him advice on how to get better at poker in a random session student plays.

2) player B takes over player A to make an immediate gain (usually done at a FT of an MTT)

if you want to compare it to a cash game, it would be equivalent to a 100NL grinder with a 10k bankroll taking a shot at 5/10 but letting a 5/10 grinder who wins ghost them and tell them what to do and take 50% profit.

1) seems/is legitimate while 2) seems/is dishonest but essentially it is the same thing, the only difference is the intent of the 2 people involved.

then you are against sweat sessions as well. and thats fine, but if you say "oh thats different" then you are agreeing with me that intent matters and is the deciding factor. if you are going strict TOS, sweating is against TOS as well, but is not frowned upon.

listen, if you want to be clear cut about it like "well its wrong and against TOS" fine, but by that standard, anyone who does a sweat with a coach is equally as wrong. if you dont feel that that is the case, then you are implying that the intentions of the people involved make a difference. my stance is that intentions are everything. i mean cheating is cheating, but ghosting for a profit =/= sweating a student in a coaching session. it looks the same but is clearly not, imo.

now if you want to take the stance that sweating is wrong AS A WHOLE, then i have no argument with that and thats fine...but it seems that sweat sessions are widely regarded as totally ok around here. but i mean you cant say one is ok and the other isnt, without saying that is intent that is the issue. you just cant.

I just read through all of the Legal Information tabs located here and didn't see anything mentioned about ghosting. I'm still not sure where you guys are getting your info from that it's against their TOS.