Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Nl200, v bet this or what Nl200, v bet this or what

06-16-2008 , 07:50 AM
Villain is Thx4urmoney, he is one of the better regs imo. He has a tendency to be passive vs me oop. He can be double barrling with a large range here, but once he checks the river the only think I can see calling is Q10s,Q9s perhaps or maybe AJhh or JKhh, though I think this is balanced or possibley outweighed by the times I am valuetowning myself vs AQ b/c I think thats the biggest part of his calling range.

Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

UTG+1: $213.55
UTG+2: $206.00
MP1: $212.10
MP2: $40.00
CO: $200.00
Hero (BTN): $200.00
SB: $247.40
BB: $271.65
UTG: $41.80

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with Q K
5 folds, CO raises to $8, Hero calls $8, 2 folds

Flop: ($19.00) Q 5 6 (2 players)
CO bets $12, Hero calls $12

Turn: ($43.00) J (2 players)
CO bets $28, Hero calls $28

River: ($99.00) 2 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $62
06-16-2008 , 08:21 AM
What do you think your hand looks like to him? Looks like QK QT(how loose are you pf) whatever. He will probably call/fold accordingly, unless you sometimes play draws like this imo
06-16-2008 , 08:23 AM
i ckeck behind
06-16-2008 , 11:31 AM
turn brings 2 FDs on the board. Doubt he will put you on a 2p/set hand as you did not raise the turn. If he had AQ he wouldve bet the river here imo but as you said he does play passively against you OOP.

I think vbetting here would depend on whether or not villian is going to call you down light. If he perceives you to be a tight solid player I would check here.
06-16-2008 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
What do you think your hand looks like to him? Looks like QK QT(how loose are you pf) whatever. He will probably call/fold accordingly, unless you sometimes play draws like this imo
exactly
i think you are valuetowning yourself on this river, since he kind of knows what you have but you don't really know what he has.
06-16-2008 , 03:38 PM
These situations really bug me, some advice on the following questions would be helpful for me:

Would a hand that KQ beats on the turn bet out OOP into a flop caller like that? I can't imagine you'd be ahead here.

What would you have done if he bet out on the river? If you're calling on the turn, and you would fold on the river to a bet, what's the point of calling on the turn?

Does the sequence of betting and calling taken on previous streets make the check on the river indicate strength, pot control, or just giving up after two failed barrels?

Is raising the flop out of the question for information? If you raised behind, the only hands that are sticking around are AQ or better, maybe a high Ahxh?

How strongly do you have to take into account the fact that he may think you were drawing the whole time, and that your bet on the river looks like a complete bluff after his check behind? That of course would make this bet extremely profitable if he'd call your "bluff" down with 1010, AJ or something?

How worried should we be about the J on the turn? JJ could make this play? QJ is the only reasonable pair hand that you beat that is on the board? Shouldn't the J scare us?
06-16-2008 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Would a hand that KQ beats on the turn bet out OOP into a flop caller like that? I can't imagine you'd be ahead here.
only 10Q and 9Q and basically nothing else
Quote:
What would you have done if he bet out on the river? If you're calling on the turn, and you would fold on the river to a bet, what's the point of calling on the turn?
i think river is a fold cause he probably wouldn't triple barrel us. the point of calling on the turn is to showdown cheaply on the river, and hero (and me too) doesn't think he'll triple barrel so in that case we can fold to a river bet. hero said in the introduction that he would double barrel with a wide range, so with top pair second best kicker i think we have to call this.
Quote:
Does the sequence of betting and calling taken on previous streets make the check on the river indicate strength, pot control, or just giving up after two failed barrels?
it definitely doesn't indicate strength in my opinion. he's bet at us twice already, no reason to see why he would check raise with the nuts now cause we're probably gonna check it down. the check probably indicates pot control or a failed bluff, and the reason i also like checking the river is we can see his hand if we check (although that's a very minor consideration)
Quote:
Is raising the flop out of the question for information? If you raised behind, the only hands that are sticking around are AQ or better, maybe a high Ahxh?
raising the flop isn't terrible and gets us some good information, but it prevents him from bluffing us later on and inflates the pot in a situation where we don't want to play a huge pot with only 1 pair. thus, i like the call on the flop.
Quote:
How strongly do you have to take into account the fact that he may think you were drawing the whole time, and that your bet on the river looks like a complete bluff after his check behind? That of course would make this bet extremely profitable if he'd call your "bluff" down with 1010, AJ or something?
good point, a missed draw does comprise a very large part of our range. that is an argument for value betting. however, its hard to see him playing pocket 10s or AJ this way (why would he bet the turn with such marginal hands?). therefore, i think his range is polarized to a pair of queens, low 2 pair, and bluffs or maybe even semibluffs with heart draws or str8 draws. this range of his that i made up can't call the river except for the pair of queens, and low 2 pair. in that case, it would seem that a valuebet is marginal at best and maybe even valuetowning ourself.
Quote:
How worried should we be about the J on the turn? JJ could make this play? QJ is the only reasonable pair hand that you beat that is on the board? Shouldn't the J scare us?
the J on the turn isn't a scary card at all. JJ and QJ comprise a tiny percent of his range on the turn, so its not something to be worried about. any heart card, str8 card, or ace would be far scarier.
06-16-2008 , 06:03 PM
3 bet or fold pre imo.

check river.
06-18-2008 , 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TucoRamirez
3 bet or fold pre imo.

check river.
What's the theory on your PF strategy?

Just curious.
06-18-2008 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkar824
What's the theory on your PF strategy?

Just curious.
KQo just isn't a hand that I want to be playing in a raised pot when I'm not the raiser. We simply aren't going to hit enough flops to get paid off, not to mention the CO's range is probably pretty wide here. Making it even harder to win a big pot.

Offsuit broadway hands like this are pretty much for stealing with. I may be biased though because I like to have the lead in most of the hands I play. I run ~15/13 FWIW.
06-18-2008 , 03:02 PM
i think check behind, as villain prob. isnt gonna pay us off with anything that we beat
what hand is he gonna call us down with>

Q10 is not gonna pay off a river bet i dont think.

      
m