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NL100 WTF A reg calls my 4bet

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11-11-2008 , 08:52 AM

hochiminh

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,563

He is 14/12. I'm 10/9 or so. I've 3bet him a couple of times from blinds on different tables and he folded.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $98.00
CO: $26.50
BTN: $101.50
SB: $48.30
BB: $186.70
Hero (UTG): $102.00
UTG+1: $105.50

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with A

Hero raises to $3.50, 3 folds, BTN raises to $13, 2 folds, Hero raises to $32, BTN calls $19

Flop: ($65.50) J

(2 players)
Hero?

11-11-2008 , 09:15 AM

babar86

banned

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,881

check fold this board. this kind of spot suck.

he has 60% AA/KK, 30% QQ, 10% AK.

11-11-2008 , 09:16 AM

Gabethebabe

Malware Jedi

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 27,603

flip a coin.
Heads: puke and c/f
Tails: puke and shove.

11-11-2008 , 10:16 AM

TheRenaissance

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 10,588

This is very different from a blind defense situation.
Whats your utg open %?
Just given your regular stats, I imagine villain would only 3b you with QQ+.
Heck, it is probably more like KK+.
I think your 4b is spew.

11-11-2008 , 10:17 AM

TheRenaissance

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 10,588

in before "OMG YOU ****** AK IS THE NUTZ!!112!§§!!"

11-11-2008 , 10:41 AM

Brimstead

adept

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 999

c/f, this spot sucks

i would only 4bet AK there if i know my opponent would 3bet my utg raise with a wider range than QQ+

11-11-2008 , 10:43 AM

Gabethebabe

Malware Jedi

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 27,603

jee I am an idiot.

IDIOT

My UTG open gets 3-betted. Instamuck AK vs a 14/12.
Now: learn from it and puke and fold.

11-11-2008 , 01:04 PM

Poker Poker Poker

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 104

Minbet the flop and see how he reacts, if he flats then shove turn, lol

11-11-2008 , 01:07 PM

Ponder

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,342

CRAI

11-11-2008 , 01:11 PM

#10

Poker Poker Poker

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponder

CRAI

If you don't like money

11-11-2008 , 01:23 PM

#11

Kornspitz

adept

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 852

I fold this pre most of the time.
You're behind his range (unless he 3bets AQ here a lot) and OOP, why would you want to play this hand?

11-11-2008 , 03:42 PM

#12

MtgDerivBoy

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kornspitz

I fold this pre most of the time.
You're behind his range (unless he 3bets AQ here a lot) and OOP, why would you want to play this hand?

[x] 100% correct

At best, your AK is 45% to win preflop, plus you are out of position. You called the 3-bet preflop and you hit squadoosh on the flop, you are now a huge dog. Your only hope of winning this hand is repping a set of J and hoping he falls for it, or AKs when a spade comes on the turn. Use chat box for metagame, c/c flop and c/r turn all-in if you've got the balls.

Odds are with AA/KK he's going to make the crying call and then you're busto.

11-11-2008 , 04:03 PM

#13

hochiminh

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,563

[ ] I called 3bet

11-11-2008 , 04:09 PM

#14

coordi

Make P&S Great Again

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 24,724

fwiw i think every response in this thread blows

Last edited by coordi; 11-11-2008 at 04:09 PM. Reason: j/k

11-11-2008 , 04:10 PM

#15

RosaParks

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,887

Hmm, if ur a 10/9 he has KK here really really often and he's not folding.

11-11-2008 , 07:56 PM

#16

theTruth101

banned

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 24

I don't 4 bet with any hand that I'm not willing to shove on a non scary flop. Although you didn't hit your Ace or King you still have two overcards, a backdoor flush and a backdoor straight draw as outs. It's not like the flop came out all hearts or something.

Plus, don't forget that we also have some fold equity on our side and could definitely make hands like QQ or AK fold which probably makes up a good part of Villain's 4-bet flatting range. I say jam the flop and let the poker gods decide the victor.

11-11-2008 , 08:01 PM

#17

2OutsNoProb

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 15,991

Wave the white flag. With the pot size what it is, and the remaining stacks, he's not folding anything and you have 6 outs at best, sometimes 3 or none.

11-11-2008 , 08:05 PM

#18

subandi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,836

Quote:

Originally Posted by RosaParks

Hmm, if ur a 10/9 he has KK here really really often and he's not folding.

this, if he uses a HUD/knows your stats you are crushed..
I know I **** my pants when a 10/9 4bets me from utg and I put him on QQ+ only
so my range as villain is KK+ in this spot (after calling the 4 bet)

11-11-2008 , 08:07 PM

#19

Ricky1231

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,663

whaaaz wit the 4 bet pre yo?
U'r a nit already, why strengthen the TAG's 3 betting range?

Oh and for flop play. A shove is much closer than you think. If villain's range is completely balanced between QQ+ and AK and if he always mucks AK to flop ship then the shove is profitable or very very close to it I think. too lazt to do excel sheet.

11-11-2008 , 08:12 PM

#20

babar86

banned

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,881

but he never has AK here and lol @ make QQ fold on this flop.

11-11-2008 , 08:33 PM

#21

subandi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,836

if he calls the 4bet from a 10/9 with QQ its not with the intention to fold on this flop

11-11-2008 , 11:57 PM

#22

Alexcny

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 234

Unless you have a lot of hands and reason to expect otherwise he either has AA and has decided that you will stack off and he doesn't need to bet, or he has KK and is afraid you have AA but will still stack off. I guess AK and QQ is possible but I think he stacks with QQ here and has AK so rarely that it makes it -ev to push.

Check folding here sucks but I think its the best play.

11-12-2008 , 12:09 AM

#23

RapidEvolution

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,932

Villain is almost never calling a 4bet with AK in this spot (especially from a 10/9's UTG raise). I probably fold to the 3bet because it's super-strong vs your opening range, calling sucks, and 4betting larger to jam any flop (say to $33) pretty much eliminates any FE villain might think he has from jamming over the top (though TBH, he really can't think he has any in this spot, given that a 10/9 is 4betting him after opening UTG. I'm almost certain his range here is KK+ unless you have no history, so I probably just fold to the 3bet. As played, I think this is a c/f...which sucks, but babar, rosaparks, and subandi laid it out pretty well.

11-12-2008 , 01:13 AM

#24

bigfishead

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 2,827

Btn has A

, Nut low, nut flush draw.

A 3

on the turn will counterfiet his low and you shove.

11-12-2008 , 02:40 AM

#25

ShoCae

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,128

I 4b smaller pre, to 26-28 and bet flop IF there is history. If not I just muck, I'm not 10/9 though, and I'd have to know the guy is adapting/adjusting to our reg waring. As played, if I were you I'd check/fold this particular situation.

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