http://cakepoker.com//HandHistory/?H...wIjAxczFxcw%3d

"Judas Christ" is a supertight nit, I don't have his stats because this is cake poker. Anyway, when he goes $44 after I raised him to $15, I just know that he has KK. His opening range UTG+1 pre is obviously extremely narrow, and no way is he coming back over the top with AK or AA, that's just not how these guys roll. God I wish I'd just insta-fold-show-handed him that would have been so beautiful.

Only reason I move in here is because I got this idea somewhere that "you can't fold in this spot no matter how certain you are", pretty much the same stuff some people say about KK preflop.

This is no BBV thread. I just want to discuss the following: Is it allowed to fold in this spot?

I dont care how tight he is, do ANYTHING but fold.

why?

Because his user is Judas and we know what a tricky son of a bitch that guy was. All in for Jesus.

Please go away

You just pulled a Tilly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN6wAHTWeEA

The link didn´t work for me, so no hand history here.

One thing´s for sure, if it were allowed, then you must not be in the hand in the first place. I mean, you can´t play to flop a set of jacks if any action in case of A,K,Q on board makes you fold.

That said, if you have ~3000 hands on him, he plays like 8/4 and you have analyzed his every move in any meaningful pot, then you can fold here if you know for sure that he´s never having KJ here, and always pot controling one pair hands.

So I don´t say "never", but I say "never in practice".
There´s 6 ways how he can have AA and 3 ways how he can have top set, and I don´t believe aces are out of question here, especialy as he thinks that you can make TPTK with AK six ways (if he has AA) but a set of jacks in only three ways. Again,. don´t have hand history here, but I assume he can pretty much rule out KK b/c of preflop action.

I´m not making fun of you, I understand how it feels when you go broke although you "knew" it, but honestly, as for this "AA always pot control" thing, you can´t know it, can you?

Thanks for posting the first meaningful reply in this thread so far. I really like your analysis of the hand.

The reason I'm stacking off here is ofc because of just what you said: Although I have a pretty certain pot control read on his way of playing AA and AK there is always a chance that he puts me on AK KQ or whatever and wants to get it in on the flop. I guess he might put me on QT too and make such a move with these hands.


But that's about it. I don't have enough material on him to fully justify this fold, I just honestly think that folding in this spot is fully possible against many of the nits playing full ring NL100. But in practice I probably won't be able to, at least not at a site that does not have time bank in the cashgames heh.

Since the link somehow stopped working, here is the HH roughly as I remember it.

We both have around $100. He is UTG+1, I'm a few seats behind him.

He goes $4 pre, I call.

Flop comes 2 J K rainbow.

He bets like 6, I go to $15, he comes back with $44, I seriously consider folding , it would be sick sweet to get away with loosing less than 20BB in this spot. But then I'm like omg no way can't do it, so I ship it in and he calls. Me JJ him KK.

Super interesting story. plz to just stack off. Hands like these are why we have bankrolls. It's a cooler, just move on and don't overthink this. If roles were reversed he stacks off to you so it's pretty neutral ev over the very long run.

No.

We don't want neutral ev. We want all the cash.

If he only has top set here, then he only has top set here [(but you better be ***** sure (+1000 hands, soulread etc.)]

Why aren't you ever playing when I'm playing?

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. OP is being results oriented so I just took into account we knew his hand unless i'm totally misunderstanding what you said.

I think I explained that weird but I dunno how else to .

Well yeah, I understand now what you said. You meant that OP was slightly result oriented here which might be too. But I'm right too . If you find enough big nit, then fold might be in order here as insane as it sounds.

That being said, I have never, ever folded mid-set.

Since these reads come about almost never, just ship it and don't worry about it.

In the grand scheme of things, there are MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger leaks we all need to worry about than making the 1/1,000,000 middle set on a dry flop fold to the 9/3 nit that is all the sudden acting like it's christmas time.

I've folded midset in a rr pot for 100bbs before but i has a stone read.

LOL I'm not being result oriented. I'm seeking to find the right decision in every spot I'm in. In this spot the right decision was folding, and I want to discuss if it's possible to find this fold. The attitude "you just have to stack off in set over set situations" is really not profitable when it comes to full ring cashgames imo, plenty of times you can actually find the fold if you have a solid read on your villain. Imagine what it would do to your BB/100 if you were able to get away from these spots.