Full Tilt Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $50.30
CO: $57.50
Hero (BTN): $147.00
SB: $115.75
BB: $104.75
UTG: $197.80
UTG+1: $63.00
MP1: $108.70

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with 4 4
4 folds, CO calls $1, Hero calls $1, SB calls $0.50, BB checks

Flop: ($4.00) 5 7 4 (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $3.00, CO calls $3, Hero raises to $9.50, SB raises to $28, BB folds, CO folds, Hero calls $18.50

Turn: ($66.00) K (2 players)
SB bets $44.00, Hero ???

Have 7K hands on villian, he is 17/12 with a 4 Agg Factor. Flop C/R is 4%.

I rarely ever fold sets, but it feels like I'm beaten, do I ever get away or just jam the turn?

fold flop...seriously. now fold turn

You are rarely good here. I promise, because villain has flopped straight or over set.

+1
in a limped pot like this you are easily beat

most likely a straight but a higher set is possible too

i folded a set on the flop yesterday.. felt sooo dirty

I don't like letting people limp on my button, especially when I have a hand that I would have open-raised if it folded to me. I understand the rationale of limping behind, but I think raising it will be more immediately profitable, especially if the CO tends to play straight-forward after the flop.

As played, in a limped pot I think you are rarely going to be good on that board facing that much action.

Thanks for the responses guys. I felt beat on the flop and crushed on the turn and even though everything in me was screaming fold, I jammed anyway. He turned over 63 for the str8 and I didn't fill up. When reviewing the hand, I felt like this was definitely a fold, but I just wanted a 2nd opinion to make sure that wasn't being too nitty.

INSTA FOLD AINEC

Agreed.

I'm raising this Pre on the button 100% of the time.......

I actually think isoing a reg's CO limp here with 44 is pretty bad, to many other hands u can do that with that are a million times better

If 2+ limpers, i prefer to limp. But i don't see whats wrong with isoing and picking up the pot on flop.

iso the 4's 100% of the time. as played this is a pretty easy flop fold. if you have top set here its a hate life shove. sets aren't the end all be all in poker. bottomset blows chode especially in lomped pots.

I agree with the consensus here. Raised pots with HU flops are a whole diff. story because villains show up with big draws quite often. But when it's multiway villains tend to play more honest and the same can be said when people see a flop for 1BB or less. Combine the two and you get pretty ABC at NL100 FR.

With that said, without a read I have a lot of trouble folding here. If the villains in the pot are winning regs then snap fist pump fold. But if it's an average fishy NL100 player its a reluctant call. Sure we can be results based here and say "damn I knew he had a str8." But if it's a fish he would do the same with 57,47,74 and there are a lot more combos of those hands than the sets and especially the straights.

Here is the most recent example from my own play that I could find (it was middle set in this case, but I'd have done the same with 44):

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 570516
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

SB: $47.35
BB: $77.20
UTG: $76.55
Hero (UTG+1): $130.35
UTG+2: $102.00
MP1: $49.10
MP2: $149.75
CO: $100.00
BTN: $93.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG+1 with 5 5
UTG calls $1, Hero raises to $2, 4 folds, BTN calls $2, 1 fold, BB calls $1, UTG calls $1

Flop: ($8.50) K 5 4 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $6, BTN calls $6, BB raises to $17, UTG folds, Hero raises to $28, BTN folds, BB raises to $75.20 all in, Hero calls $47.20

Turn: ($164.90) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($164.90) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $164.90
BB shows K 4 (two pair, Kings and Eights)
Hero shows 5 5 (a full house, Fives full of Eights)
Hero wins $161.90
(Rake: $3.00)

this is example is much different however. the boards not very drawy, and the way the preflop action went you effectively have the nuts and can never be beat by KK here unless its the most misplayed KK in the existence of mankind.

In OP's hh, pretty much anyone could have 68,36,77/55

I agree. I'm always isoing the 4's in this spot pre-flop. But hating life with top set? I have to disagree here.

Seeing as how villain showed up with 63 here I think it's fair to put his range at ATC in this spot. So he has:

two pair: 2.3%
sets: 0.51%
Straights: 2.73%.

So hero is good about 42% of the time here and has to contribute only 28% of the pot on the flop. Same odds on turn.

I agree, it's a pretty bad example to compare to Heros hand. It's just the first one I found to demonstrate how aggressive fish get with two pair. They think its quad aces.

need to raise it up with 44 on the btn protect position n also you will fold 1-2 players limping making the pot smaller n play poker post flop

well the way OP's hand played out, sb is repping a straight or set 100% of the time, and way more geared towards straights. so top set becomes more of a hate life shove becuz atleast we beat smaller sets, but bottomset is completely useless in this situation.

the funny thing i just realized about this hand was i was villain in this hand. i had 63dd and i remember thinking like wow, i really hope this guy can't get away from a set. i'm not going to talk crap, but i def feel like the stack off with 44 here was somewhat of a donation.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $50.30
CO: $57.50
BTN: $147.00
Hero (SB): $115.75
BB: $104.75
UTG: $197.80
UTG+1: $63.00
MP1: $108.70

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with 6 3
4 folds, CO calls $1, BTN calls $1, Hero calls $0.50, BB checks

Flop: ($4.00) 5 7 4 (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $3, CO calls $3, BTN raises to $9.50, Hero raises to $28, BB folds, CO folds, BTN calls $18.50

Turn: ($66.00) K (2 players)
Hero bets $44, BTN requests TIME, BTN raises to $118 all in, Hero calls $42.75 all in

River: ($239.50) J (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $239.50
BTN shows 4 4 (three of a kind, Fours)
Hero shows 6 3 (a straight, Seven high)
Hero wins $236.50
(Rake: $3.00)

Why dont you lead out on the flop **********? you are risking it getting checked around and a loot of turncards can kill your hand (6, 8, any diamond, 4, 5 or 7). people will for sure raise you with two pair/sets. maybe it was like a heat of the moment check, or?

Funny thing is even with 63dd here Im not like super duper fist pump excited, I mean Im obv never ever folding (esp with FD freeroll), but I think u see 86 here a ton. Which means as villan (op) I could turbo fold 44 in this spot.

Heavy levels ITT.

yeah i prob should be leading flop, but with 5 ppl in the hand i feel confident someone is going to bet this flop and i can go for a c/r which if they have sets theyll shove over usually. but id say i lead flop and check flop with fairly equal frequencies, geuss just depends whichever button i click.

yeah well villain was an 11/9 so i highly doubt hes rockin an 86 here even with the option to limp the button 11/9's generally fold 86. plus once he just calls my raise on flop its obvious 86 isnt a big portion of his range anymore. i think bigger flush draws and sets are almost exclusively his range. and yeah i agree 100% 44 is a turbo muck here, but most ppl cant fold sets which = profit for us. bottomset is the most overrated hand in poker imo.