This is a spot I'm finding myself in regularly at the tables and I'm never sure exactly what the best line to take is. I have 10 hands on villain so no stats or history at all. What is hero's flop action and if we are staying in the hand how will we react to the various turn possibilities.

FWIW I'm playing roughly 14/10/3 and I'm finding that my cbets get raised very often on boards of this texture. Earlier I had 88 on a 994 board (which is more dangerous than 449 but not by much) and I folded it. I find these really tough spots with PP's in the range of 77-JJ. Thoughts/discussion/theory, etc, etc....

AFAIK the standard line is the old, "call and re-evaluate" but IME more and more players at NL$200 know that good/reasonable players call to see if another strong bet is forthcoming and subsequently bet. In truth I can't remember the last time I called to re-eval and found villain slowing down.


Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP2: $222.60
CO: $37
BTN: $195
Hero (SB): $240.15
BB: $214.15
UTG: $199.95
UTG+1: $189.25
UTG+2: $213.10
MP1: $205

Pre-Flop: J J dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $2, UTG+2 raises to $8, 4 folds, Hero calls $7, 2 folds

Flop: ($20) 4 4 9 (2 Players)
Hero bets $15, UTG+2 raises to $44,

I don't really like donking at this flop. As played, this is a fold as you're out of position and don't really know where you're at. If you check-raise here, you force him to a decision if he has a draw or a hand like yours - if you check- call, you may get bluffed at on the turn but I think people tend to slow down unless very aggro or a good scare card comes.
I like a check-call here since you played the hand passively pf. You might elicit a bluff or get value from 88/TT either on turn or river.
This spot is pretty much why it's called a donk though. Try not to do it when a raise will leave you confused/ outplayed often. Do it when you're gonna fold or you're strong.

Oh holly crap!!!! I donked it I didn't even realize or read the history as I was sure at the time I'd raised pre then made a standard bet. God this is awful and I flat called the raise then stacked off on the turn!!!!!!

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! This is my first real error since moving to 12 tables. Forget thread - I played this utter sh*t

In the interests of discussion what's the play if villain limped and hero is the pre-flop raiser?

lol I do this all the time while playing.

*table pops up*
action is on the flop its checked around to me, I have air
"Wait, what was the action here? Well, I must've raised. I always raise, so fire cbet"
villain shoves all in
"oh yeah, that's right, oops"
fold

lol

Me too

Keep chat box open and scroll up little bit to memorize actions.

If you were the pfr is pretty much comes down to

A) Can we eliminate QQ+ (usually yes)
B) How many underoverpairs are there and what are they doing?
C) Are the draws in the range (usually yes)

Leaving in or taking TT makes a huge difference here. So does A9o obv.

Board: 9c 4c 4s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.168% 38.17% 00.00% 29472 1.50 { JJ }
Hand 1: 61.832% 61.83% 00.00% 47745 1.50 { 99, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, A4s, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc }

VERSUS

Board: 9c 4c 4s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.759% 54.76% 00.00% 61800 1.50 { JJ }
Hand 1: 45.241% 45.24% 00.00% 51057 1.50 { TT-99, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, A4s, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc }

VERSUS

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

166,320 games 0.005 secs 33,264,000 games/sec

Board: 9c 4c 4s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 62.483% 62.48% 00.00% 103920 1.50 { JJ }
Hand 1: 37.517% 37.52% 00.00% 62397 1.50 { TT-99, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, A4s, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc, A9o }

So my action here depends what I think TT and A9o are doing. If I think they are coming with me if I 3bet, then Ill 3bet. If I think they are raise folding, then call---> c/c or call c/r lines become options, depending on the turn card, whether it's a card which can hit his draws but not complete them (Ace, king, etc...), kill my action from TT or A9o (any overcard), or complete the draw (any club).

I 3bet this flop alot though. Esp since I can often rule out a 4 here meaing I only really fear 99.

I ran more math on JJ overpairs here:

http://forums.cardplayer.com/forums/...56177&start=15

In the first post on that page.