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5/10 NL live , Top two pair in unraised pot, DEEP 5/10 NL live , Top two pair in unraised pot, DEEP

03-05-2010 , 05:19 PM
Hero has $5k
BB has $1,200
Villain has $3k

Villain is a loose player, pretty fishy, he overplays his one pair hands.

3 players limp, Hero limps on the button with J9o

Flop ($50) J96r

gets checked to villain in CO who bets $25, Hero raises to $100, BB calls $100, Villain raises to $200, Hero calls $200, BB calls $200.

BB is a solid winning reg, I was concerned about him cold-calling the raise on the flop, but once he calls the second raise I realize his most likely hand is a straight draw. Villain is a goofball and I think his range here is QJ, KJ, AJ, 69, J6s, 66, 99. He has responded people's raises with re-raises post flop to "see where he's at".

Turn ($650) 4

BB checks, Villain bets $300, Hero ??

Knowing that the BB probably has a straight draw, what should my move be here? I really don't like building the pot and getting stacks in 300bb deep in an unraised pot with my hand, but against this spewy villain's range, maybe I should make an exception??
03-05-2010 , 05:30 PM
call, next?
03-05-2010 , 07:27 PM
I don't htink you can just call, bb probably has monster draw. I like raising small and getting a big bet in on riv.
03-05-2010 , 07:35 PM
With OP's reads I think we need to raise the turn to set up a river shove against the fish.

$857.52
03-05-2010 , 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hard2tel
With OP's reads I think we need to raise the turn to set up a river shove against the fish.

$857.52
set up a river shove on a villain with over 2k behind? Pretty sure no one has ever accused you of being a nit.
03-06-2010 , 01:07 AM
Quote:
I really don't like building the pot and getting stacks in 300bb deep in an unraised pot with my hand, but against this spewy villain's range, maybe I should make an exception??
What hand would you like to have in a n unraised pot that would be enough to get it in on this board vs a spewy opponent?

Also, if this is your "credo" so to speak, then why are you limping with J9o in the first place?

I would raise and look to get the BB out so you can go heads up with the CO who is probably chasing a 3 outer (kicker) against you and sometimes just a two outer (with a trickily played overpair, boy is he gonna show you!). A call gives the BB 4-1 with implied odds on two players.
03-06-2010 , 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwerd2
I really don't like building the pot and getting stacks in 300bb deep in an unraised pot with my hand, but against this spewy villain's range, maybe I should make an exception??
if you flat, BB shoves turn and CO calls, whats your move?
03-06-2010 , 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsun18
if you flat, BB shoves turn and CO calls, whats your move?
fold
03-06-2010 , 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlocdog
What hand would you like to have in a n unraised pot that would be enough to get it in on this board vs a spewy opponent?

Also, if this is your "credo" so to speak, then why are you limping with J9o in the first place?

I would raise and look to get the BB out so you can go heads up with the CO who is probably chasing a 3 outer (kicker) against you and sometimes just a two outer (with a trickily played overpair, boy is he gonna show you!). A call gives the BB 4-1 with implied odds on two players.
In an unraised pot against competent players I would like to have a set here before I get their 300bb stack in there. This guy is spewy, so I should have adjusted in this spot.

Here is the rest of the action from the hand:

Turn ($650) 4

BB checks, Villain bets $300, Hero calls $300, BB calls $300

River ($1550) Q

BB is all-in for $825, Villain folds (he has the dealer hold his cards off to the side and shows KK), Hero folds

I have played a lot with the BB, he would never bluff a missed draw in this spot considering he knows we both have legit hands behind him, and he is never value betting QT like this or turning it into a bluff. Thought the river was an easy fold.

I think raising on the turn to $600 would be the best play, it would price the BB out and I would hopefully regain the initiative. The BB was never forced to make a mistake with his straight draw at any point in the hand. If villain shoves I would be pretty disgusted though. If he flats then I guess I would check behind on river.

Last edited by schwerd2; 03-06-2010 at 06:15 AM.
03-06-2010 , 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlocdog
Also, if this is your "credo" so to speak, then why are you limping with J9o in the first place?
Thought that J9o was playable on the button, but not good enough to raise 3 limpers. You can't really say, "well if you play j9o and flop two pair and don't get your money in why are you playing it?". Everything in poker is so situational. If villain started the hand with 100-150 bb, the money would have been in on the flop or the turn.
03-06-2010 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
In an unraised pot against competent players I would like to have a set here before I get their 300bb stack in there. This guy is spewy, so I should have adjusted in this spot.
I'm glad you recognized that you didn't make the proper adjustments here since both your opponents were not competent. That was the point of my question to you...

Also, how does one make a set with J9o? If you mean trips, I would caution you about overvaluing that hand as well then. If real money goes in on a JJx or 99x board, you probably have some kicker problems. Just because a hand ranks higher on the absolute value chart does not make it a more formidable hand to take against an opponent. A good example of this is when you have flopped a set and turned the underfull, i.e, 44 on a AK4 board and the turn is a K. Your hand has weakened even though it has increased in value.
Quote:
BB is all-in for $825, Villain folds (he has the dealer hold his cards off to the side and shows KK), Hero folds
Boy is that CO tricky right! Never saw that coming...
Quote:
Thought that J9o was playable on the button, but not good enough to raise 3 limpers. You can't really say, "well if you play j9o and flop two pair and don't get your money in why are you playing it?". Everything in poker is so situational. If villain started the hand with 100-150 bb, the money would have been in on the flop or the turn.
Weird that in the same paragraph you say "everything in poker is situational" yet then make a broad statement such as "Thought that J9o was playable on the button, but not good enough to raise 3 limpers."....seems broad to me. It should depend on the tendencies of the limpers since how you play J9 will differ (if you choose to play it at all).

You are the one that said you don't want to get 300bb in with just two pair in an unraised pot...that seems like a broad statement to me and thus my credo inquiry.

Also, you ARE starting the hand with 300bb so to say that you have no issues getting it in with less stacks is inconsequential because you don't have less stacks. You have 300bb stacks...so I ask again, why are you playing this hand if you will feel uncomfortable with flopping big given the facts.

      
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