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1/2 - Live QQ is this a fold pre-flop. Loose table 4 way action 1/2 - Live QQ is this a fold pre-flop. Loose table 4 way action

12-02-2008 , 08:37 AM
The table is loose and full of donks who make terrible god awful plays..........

Hero: (UTG) 700
UTG+1: 1000 Loose/Agg
MP: 300 Tight/Rock/Passive
MP+1: xxxx
CO: xxxx
BTN: 560 Loose
SB: xxx
BB: xxx

Pre-Flop (3) Hero is dealt QQ
Hero raises to 15, UTG+1 raises to 45, MP calls, BTN raises to 160, Hero???

UTG+1 is the bully at the table likes to play in a lot of pots likes to control the betting but wont re-raise me if he doesnt have TT+ or AK/AQ. MP is a total rock could easily have AA, KK, AK/AQ, QQ, JJ. BTN is a total donk and could very easily be betting KQ, KJ 99+ or AK/AQ/AJ type hands.
12-02-2008 , 10:04 AM
edit: nvm, didn't look properly at stacksizes
12-02-2008 , 10:26 AM
So shove or fold. No one calls right?
12-02-2008 , 01:05 PM
So the guy who won't reraise you without TT+ raises you, and the rock smooth calls with you yet to act, then the donkey 4-bets. Donkey aside, this is not a great spot for you.

With stacks at a minimum 150bb deep and quite likely more, I can lay QQ down here pretty easily.
12-02-2008 , 02:57 PM
I hate putting the words "QQ" "live" and "fold pf" in the same sentence but I think this might be acceptable here.
12-02-2008 , 03:11 PM
If you trust your reads, I think it's either AI or fold...and I would lean towards fold, although I also think folding QQ in live 1/2 is usually a losing play.

This seems like a spot where the only way you're getting called is if you're beat or flipping. Let's ignore the flipping, since that's basically going to be a neutral EV (little bit of dead money, but not a TON).

If you're called by AA/KK, you're losing 700 80% of the time, so that's a -560 EV.

If they all fold, you pick up 220.

That means that one of them has to have AA/KK less than 70 percent of the time, and given your reads, that seems unlikely.
12-02-2008 , 03:57 PM
easy fold, you're not even closing the action if you call, and raising is gross because of stacks
12-02-2008 , 05:57 PM
Fold. You are susceptible to action behind you if you call, and if you shove, you're only getting called by a crush job. Even though people aren't great in the game, given the action it's not hard for someone to have AA/KK here, and this doesn't even include the times you are up against AK (and lose or get outflopped) or one of the other three has the other QQ.

      
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