I don't want LIV to succeed but I am surprised the Saudi's have not taken the step of funding an independent group of statisticians to create a Total World Ranking System or something like that.

The could get away with this PR wise by making all their formulas known and transparent.

Of course they would want the system to be retroactive to start of LIV.

Anyway, they could simply include all the tours in the OWGR plus LIV and then post their rankings each week.

What would that cost LIV? 250K a year? more...??

They could argue that this would be interim until LIV is accepted into the OWG and that the majors and other tours could use the rankings if they want, or not if they don't.

I am just thinking that if you want to take a shot across the bow of OWG, then post your own world rankings.

I don't see the downside to this? If people say "we don't care about your ranking system" (and they will) LIV can say that is fine, but it gives our players a measure of where they stand and it also gives those who organize the majors a sense of who they may or may not be leaving out based on how the assign spots in the field.

Lots of sports have different groups and people with ranking systems...

The problem is it doesn't matter if the majors don't agree to use their system. Also, if the LIV players are essentially segregated from the rest of professional golf how do you determine relative rankings?

I agree and disagree.

I do think that rankings would have value even if not used. Right now LIV can't quantify "how good" (relatively) their players are. And, they keep dropping. Pretty soon nobody will remember or care where anyone was. They need to keep the "we have some of the best players in the world" narrative going, and data or stats might be the only way.

On the 2nd point, that is a huge problem. They have a closed system, and unless many LIV players play in several non-LIV events each year there is no easy way to weigh how any LIV player moves up or down within a more fluid global golf world. But, part of the reason people joined LIV was big $$ and more time off.

They seem in a pickle, which is fine by me!

My only hope is that they don't cause the DP tour to fail. The PGA Tour is fine, but the DP tour may be vulnerable.

Is it still considered the case that LIV players don't actually make money from LIV tournaments until they match their signing figure, as some suggested?

I don't know, last I heard it still sounded unclear.

Yes it's oddly opaque. I keep seeing stuff about the insane amount of money DJ has already "won"... but if it just comes out of his $125m signing deal, then who cares really?

My feeling is that it can't possibly work that way, at least for the top guys, as there would literally be nothing to play for. Make exactly the same regardless if you finish first or last.

Yeah I thought that was already debunked. It would not be in many players best interests to sign as they could do just as well or better with winnings and endorsements other than Phil

This was discussed upthread, but it has already been shown in court that some of the LIV contracts are structured this way. We just don't know how many or which players. But yes, for some guys they literally have nothing to play for.

LIV didn't want this info out there so who knows how many other tidbits are kept under wraps.

I would think that some of the younger players might realistically be playing with the hopes of eventually surpassing the initial signing figure if it was one of the relatively smaller ones, given the large tournament payouts. DJ not so much of course.

Are majors no longer going to exist after 2026?


Wolf, Kokrak, Grace, Westwood, Leishman, Gooch, Ancer, Neimann. All haven't won a major, all have spent time in the top 30 in the world and contented in majors. Now you make a comment about those players not being good and this back and forth has been a waste of time like I said it would be.

Again either LIV golfers eventually get points or majors change their qualification rules, it doesn't play out any other way.

No I could see them leaving it the way it is. That way you still will get some of the past Champions in but that is it once they all fall out of the World Rankings

I'm saying why would the major championships want or allow that to happen?

the majors are going to be fine. none of the guys you mentioned move the needle. keep in mind the PGA Tour will be pumping out new stars every season. look at Tom Kim. a no-name several months ago and now one of the hottest golf properties going at the moment

LIV isn't a star maker. nobody gives a **** about anything that happens at their exhibitions. their players will continue to lose relevance. no media want to engage their personalities. when is the last time you saw something relevant or engaging on DeChambeau? dude was "it" the past couple of years. now? who knows. out playing some worthless events in the Middle East

imo the OWGR can't reward points to LIV. how can they? the league doesn't meet any of the requirements. TV? nobody wants to touch LIV with a ten foot pole. perhaps they buy time on Fox and the audience will grow obv from the Youtube viewership numbers. but those numbers won't be impressive. it could serve more as an embarrassment than anything really. if things continue along this path, i could see MBS pulling the plug on the project in 2025. once it becomes apparent that the PGA Tour has survived their attempt at taking over the golf world, why continue? find a better way to utilize the remaining PIF dollars bc the big golf splash was a dud

Yeah I agree you let the players that have the exemptions based on past major victories and screw the rest

Move the needle? Majors are suppose to be the best fields on the best courses. If the best golfers in the world aren't playing it takes away from the prestige of winning.

This is just a bizarre take. Im not a fan of Dechambeau but I recall hearing about him finishing well on the world long drive and often see social media posts of his trick shots. 4 of the top 10 most popular golfers on social media are on the LIV tour.

I'm always amazed how people think they can predict the future. I'd love to hear your explanation on why the Hero challenge receives points but LIV shouldn't.

are they? tell the Masters and the USO that

could be. i don't follow social media. he's nowhere to be found in traditional media tho, i can tell you that. he was all the rage too. he obv doesn't care about that which is his choice

probably bc Tiger Woods has done a **** ton for the game of golf. MBS? not so much

nothing wrong with throwing the GOAT a bone. many ppl involved in the game owe their second houses and their child's Ivy League tuition payments to TW. it's no wonder the powers that be helped elevate his charity driven event. this is how the world works shifty. TW holds just a little bit more clout in the golf world than MBS

lol, did he just say they should get into the majors because they...well, 4 of them...are popular on twitter?

i think that is the grasped straw that jumped...the shark

Personally, I don't think the Hero should receive points. It doesn't meet the criteria.

And neither does LIV. A typical event has over 100 players and 4 rounds. I seem to remember one of the OWGR criteria is at least 80 players at a typical event. LIV has 48. I'm not sure of the criteria of rounds in an event, but we do know that 72 holes is the accepted norm around the world. LIV only plays LIV. LIV also has all closed fields, no way to qualify for an event or a season like all other tours. That's also a negative.

The amount of perceived studs in the field just doesn't matter if the listed criteria isn't met by the tour itself.

Now if they increase the field size and play 4 rounds, I'd almost certainly feel differently about it. But a tour and the players on it can't just ignore the standards and expect to be given points just because they say so.

Great season by the 4aces! Can't wait to see if they are able to pull off another dominant season on the next after more big names join LIV.

Im curious how much of this did you watch on You Tube because I do not think anyone else did?

Quite a bit more than I watched the PGA this week. The Cam vs Phil match very entertaining, Phil in the booth is great as always and DJ is arguably the best player on the planet at the moment. Cantlay/Xander to LIV next season rumours are apparently heating up big time, will be interesting to see how the "off-season" goes.

So Pat Perez finished T29-T31-T15-T31-40-46 in his Liv starts. He made over $8 million for the year. Like hitting the lottery.

How LIV Golf Is Tearing The Sport Apart, In 3 Charts

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...t-in-3-charts/

Cant blame a guy like that for taking the dough