The first time I played The Old Course I took a caddie and shot 74. The next time I carried my own bag and shot 68. That fact is just as relevant as your 7 stroke difference, which is to say it's not relevant at all.

One of the reasons to take a caddie is to hear a old Scottish brogue say something like, "laddie just aim her at the bridge o'er the wee burn and give her all you've got".

I still need to write a complete report on those wonderful 12 days playing golf throughout Scotland. Something every golfer should get to experience.

BO

Handicaps have not come down in the last 25 years according to the USGA. At the same time more lessons have been given over that time period, per golfer, than ever before. That's a huge sample.

can you blame him, which one had the better attitude?

a lot more beginners have joined the game, you can't trust statistics like these

This stat is thrown around all the time, and it's as meaningless as any I've seen.
It tells me nothing.
Of course handicaps have not come down. Have they gone up?
If handicaps were to steadily go down, don't you think there would be measures taken to counteract that trend?
Maybe lengthening the course? the rough? tightening the fairways? firming up the greens? and speeding them up.
Yes the ball and clubs have improved greatly, but it all goes into the great soup of an equation that taken as a whole, is want to remain calm on the surface.
If handicaps trend upward, there will be a demand to make easier the game.
And the reciprocal is also true.

And another ingredient in the equation- how many new golfers (relatively speaking) are there now compared to 15, 30, 45 years ago?
wouldn't new golfers have higher handicaps?
Obviously the game has opened up to more of the middle class than in years gone by. More golfers thins the average talent level.
How many rounds per year does the golfer average today?
How many did he average in the past?
This, and dozens of other questions would need to be considered before putting any weight at all on a statement such as,
"the average handicap hasn't changed in 25 years".


The average handicap hasn't changed in 25 years.
So what?

Haney obviously forgets more golf in a year than I'll ever know, but...............

I think he went the wrong way on both seasons.

For Barkley, there's just no way he's ever going to be a consistent player with that abortion of a swing. Haney needed to get in his face and tell him to swing the ****ing club in one motion. Charles was a world class athlete, it's not like he's some physically challenged dude who physically can't make a smooth follow through. It tilts me watching Haney working with him and tweaking that horrendous hitch to get square rather than forcing Chuck to start with a new swing. Even if Charles only slightly improved or regressed, he needs to ditch the hitch to have any prayer of enjoying golf with consistency.

Conversely, Haney takes an 80s golfer who wants to break 80 in Romano, and tries to get him to adopt a new swing, which Ray was obviously reluctant to do psychologically -- and for good reason. I'm an 18 handicapper and I think a good coach should be able to get me to break 80 without scrapping my swing. Here's where some tweaks seem more in order and getting Ray to cut out the horrible shots that lurk in his game, and improve his approaches, course management, chips, etc. That's all he needs to break 80 -- safe off the tee, decent approaches, smart green play. Not a brand spanking new swing.

Also, his coaching seems to involve a lot of his pupils just pounding ball after ball on the range by themselves. If you're adopting a new swing, standing there getting frustrated raking and beating seems rather fruitless activity, and you could almost see Ray getting nothing out of it. Much of that is probably Ray's own fault, but a coach needs to adapt his coaching to the player. And this seems to be something Haney just can't or won't do.

Haney went the wrong way with both, imo, and that's why neither got nearly enough out of such work. At least that's my limited take.

Not only quicker than me, but more to the point!

Couldn't agree more.
Haney was not impressive in either season.

it's hard to say. maybe not any strokes because i didn't know what i was looking for or what to fix. my swing before the instructions was not that good but i could still get around alright so i thought things were fine.

i've just started taking lessons for the first time in my life and seen drastic improvement - maybe it's just me but i always thought i could just figure it out based on reading or watching video tips online, but that pretty much guaranteed me i'd be an 18-20 handicap for the rest of my life - first lesson was 4 weeks ago and i've been there every week since, already down to 15.9 including my best ever round of 81 - i play 3-5 days a week and have already logged 50+ rounds this year so i've got a decent sample, not large by any means though, to compare pre/post lessons

basically it boiled down to this for me - i've never been taught how to play golf, but to have someone there telling me how things work and what things should look like vs. what i think is right has made a tremendous difference - i'm now learning conceptually what i should do with accurate visual representation vs. taking a written down or video tip out to the range and try to force things together

also i'm a lefty so the fact that most books/videos are from a right handers perspective make my head spin, even if they use "front/back/forward" instead of "left hand, right hand, right foot"

your mileage may vary, but i can't believe i waited this long (almost 31 yrs old) to get lessons - was always more interested in playing than learning, now it's reversed significantly

I don't see how this show did anything for Haney's teaching rep. Ya it got him more exposure, but it wasn't good teaching exposure b/c he failed in both seasons. Who in their right mind would watch the show and then go hire the guy for the kind of money he wants? Anyone want to take a shot at what he gets an hour? I really have no idea what he would want. The Tiger relationship had to of added $500 an hour.

Ray seemed to be hard to work with. He was just so freakin negative about everything and had no confidence at all.

My favorite part of this season was the last episode where they are playing and Rays phone rings and he says " It's Butch Harmon, I gotta take this" right in front of Hank. Made me LOL.

I would like them to do a Butch Harmon Project next.

What is Butch Harmon going to say? "Just take out a driver and f*cking rip it....I dunno"

/basing this off of mickelson's game

nah, imo Butch isn't the answer here either

I've said it before, I think Rick Smith should get a crack. We've seen Haney and McLean both fail numerous times in these ventures but you need someone with personality and teaching ability. Yes, Butch obv. meets both those criteria but I'm not sold on him having a show.

Maybe Haney just isn't that good. Judging/ranking coaches accurately in many sports is very difficult to the point where calling someone (even "arguably") the best coach in the world is pretty laughable. Just call them what they indisputably are, one of the most famous coaches in the world.

i didn't see all the ray romano episodes, but really how much instruction was there? i barely remember any........ barkley for sure there was alot of instruction. ray romano's show just seemed like a showcase for ray and his hack comedian friends.

Just wanted to say that I'm enjoying this topic and the replies-- well done OP

I've gotten better just by posting my swing on this forum and getting feedback from pros. My own pro has helped me tremendously. jayhawks said, the student has to be willing to put in the time. I havent' seen this show.

IMO, part of being a good teacher is helping your student love the subject. It sounds like Haney didn't do this with Romano.

I went to the range yesterday where I usually go to and guess who was hitting some balls behind me? Yes, Ray Romano. I didn't want to impose so I just left him alone. But from the sound off of his irons and driver, he made good contact virtually every time. Who knows, maybe Haney's lessons take some time...