How did u like moon valley rise???? The back nine is harder than the front but it's a good track...there's some really good long par 4s from the tips especially 16...17/18 are fun too. My favorite hole is 9

First impression: very nice layout. No two holes are alike, the greens make you think through your approach shots, and it's visually more pleasing (to me) than most desert courses around here. Off the top of my head I really liked #1, #5, #9, and #15-18.

Was in really good shape, too. Loved the greens. Very easy to read for some reason. Made quite a few putts, was 1/2 a revolution short of making a 55+ footer and 3 inches short of another 40+... both right in the heart. Can't remember the last time that happened.

I'd put it in the tier of courses I'd definitely play again, but it's a hike to get to and somewhat expensive even through Golfnow.

^ Forgot about this before: I LOVE the small holes on the practice green (the ones that are ~ ball-sized). I've only seen them on a handful of courses, but every time I see them I spend 10 minutes or so exclusively there.

It might be an extension of the lessons from Rotella's books: the smaller your target is, the easier it is on your mind to calibrate (paraphrasing obv).

Yeah I've seen those small holes only two or three times. Don't know why every course doesn't have them.

We have those at Desert Forest, seems like only the members who use them are the somewhat younger ones (our member's avg age is pretty high).

^humble brag about desert forest...I have played there once and it was sick...narrow as hell from what I remember!

We got out at Quintero today and it was epic...no one was out there, teed off at 2 pm didn't see another person on the course and finished right before dark. Greens had to be rolling close to 12 and were just nasty fast and tough. I have some pics I will post tomorrow prolly

Desert Forest is having some sort of membership drive, a friend is about to join again - he belonged there 10+ years ago and that was the only time I played out there.

What I love is that the course is all about golf - certainly not the fancy clubhouse or other amenities. They just finished an expensive course remodel, I believe primarily the greens and bunkers were the focus. Very curious to hear what GoDeVils thinks of it. What's funny is that they apparently added like 300 yards and overall attempted to make the course tougher...a course which was already one of the 2-3 toughest in the state! The time I played out there I had a handicap index of <1, as close to scratch as I've been as an adult. Shot an 85 and really wasn't even that upset. Just brutally tough and after a few bogies in a row I was mentally playing defense the rest of the way. There is no letup. Good news as a member is, if you can play there you can pretty much play anywhere.

Will presumably be back out there soon as long as the guest fee is somewhat reasonable (it probably won't be). Looking forward to it.

Heading to work now, I have some things about renovation to talk about this evening. maybe I'll upload the new score card as well

Anyone have any connections for just some GA passes for FBR open? Haven't found any yet and just trying to take my gf on Friday...maybe I can barter a round somewhere with someone next time we need a 4th...

I love hearing about golf course redesigns, although it's a lot more interesting if I've actually played the course. Because I love course architecture I tend to have a pretty photographic memory and can recall a lot of the holes at Desert Forest from a decade later. Google Maps helps fill in the blanks or recall memories as well.

Funny, it's gotten so much harder to get into the tournament the last few years. I remember not even ten years ago we could BS our way into Greenskeeper by just waiting for a Thunderbird friend of ours to come by and get us past security. Now that's just not feasible (despite having a lot more friends who are Thunderbirds) because the prices and access have made it so exclusive, and the recent relocation hasn't helped either. Frankly, I'm also probably too damned old to be begging my way into a tent anyway.

That said, since it seems that all Greenskeeper and other such access tickets are sold primarily in weeklong bulk they give them a ton of GA passes, more than they know what to do with. If I come across any I will send you a PM. No plans to attend myself, too much of a PITA. If I go it's usually a last minute thing.

Are GA passes actually hard to find? I thought they were literally unlimited, and even when on sale were only like $20-30 each?

They are $30 this year if I recall and yes I used to get hooked up all the time but it's really dried up last couple years. Same thing as you I had buddies that knew some thunderbirds and we would get in no problem but last couple years they have clamped down hard!!!

Yes I am just trying to save that $60 for my gf and I for 6 beers lol

Gunna post pics of Quintero from Sunday later tonight...playing talking stick north tomorrow at 1:45 with my buddy who works out there

Alright, I'll try and make this somewhat brief.

I may be somewhat vague about some specifics regarding my role at DF. This is in respect to the club and my employer (Troon Golf).

About one year ago I realized I was not happy with my current career and decided that gc agronomy was something I would enjoy and be somewhat attainable. Started at DF in February '13 and I soon learned (actually in my interview) that the course was slated for renovation and would be closed from June until December.

I was able to learn the basics of the industry in the four months before the closure. When the project began I was surprised to learn that I had been selected to work with the architect and his shapers in the construction of the bunkers and green complexes. Myself and my immediate boss were the only ones who were directly involved in the actual renovation as most of the remaining crew were slated to maintain the practice areas and the majority of the fairways that were not being altered.

Every green and bunker on the course was altered significantly, the fairway contours were left untouched except for number 9 and 18. The fairway turf outlines (rough edge) were brought in on the majority of holes making them tighter. The project did not add any fairway bunkers and like before all bunkers are greenside. Some holes maintained the same number of bunkers but altered the shape, style and position. Some holes have more bunkers now and some less and one theme I picked up on pretty early is the traps seemed to move more towards front/center of greens (especially on the par 3s).

In my honest opinion the course got significantly more difficult although I played very little before the renovation. It is true that the length was increased by about 300yds, however, we added so may tee-boxes that it also was shortened for the ladies. 13 of 18 holes have new tips tees (gold) with most holes having a total of 7 sets of tees.

Basically my given responsibilities consisted of finish shaping bunker edges, floors and immediately surrounding contours (bumps, mounds, depressions etc). We would talk with architect about what he saw before starting and slowly mold it into a eye-pleasing yet playable entity. We took a lot of trips to tee boxes and landing areas to gain better visual perspective. As the bunker work wound down we were tasked with helping architect finish the green contours after the roughed in shape with bulldozers. This was an amazing learning experience as determining pinnable areas, slope/grade and visual impact was very technical and extremely interesting.

The architect's name is Dave Zincand and he was a pretty cool dude to work with (as well as his shapers), often asking what our opinions were and allowing some creative freedom in the process of creating a product that fell in line with his vision. I believe he came from the Coore/Crenshaw group and this was one of his first solo projects. That being said I truly feel the course was pretty amazing before but is now world class.

I really regret not taking more pics when working with architect as we went through hole by hole completely altering bunkers and greens, which would make for a pretty epic before and after slideshow. Here is a couple pics I did take of number 16 mid way through bunker shaping:

















I will take some more pics of finished green complexes and maybe some tee box perspective on interesting holes and post them here if you guys would like.

Sick write up...very interesting. My buddy knows some higher ups in Troon like Mike Poe and Tom Wilcox, that's how we get quite a few hook ups through those big dogs lol

That's great stuff. I'd definitely love to hear more or see more pics, so long as you don't feel it might get you in trouble (not sure how it could but you would know better than I).

The one gripe he had - which was probably minor quibbling - was over holes 8 and 17. He didn't like that 8 was made so much longer, and thought the reduction of length on 17 was more a need for the architect to put his stamp on the course rather than any useful reason. He may be wrong about this perceived agenda of course, but if you have any detail behind the thought process here (especially on 17) it could be interesting.

Also, totally forgot that there are no fairway bunkers. The other anomaly that I remember is that they instruct golfers with carts to keep them in the fairway and not drive them in the rough. Usually it's the opposite if anything. May have something to do with keeping the rough from getting flattened but not sure.

Quintero asks the same thing...carts in the fairway so the rough doesn't flatten down and acts like real rough

Well it makes sense, and I fully support any request which makes it slightly less likely that my poorly executed shot will roll into the untamed desert. Those are two of the most punitive courses in town.

Anyway durango, you're gonna lurve this - I'm apparently playing Orange Tree on Friday. I didn't renew my Troon Pass (not yet and probably won't) so Talking Stick was out and had to scramble for options. One of the other guys booked Orange Tree. I guess it's on a "Legend Trail" pass? Must be tied to John Jacobs schools.

I always give it a pass because it was built before courses were expected to have character. All I ask is that the greens be nice, and I'm sure they will be.

Yeah obv Orangetree is super old school but it's in about as good shape as it can get right now. Greens are solid...the practice greens suck still so don't judge it on that. As always favor short of the green and putt/chip uphill and u can make 4-5 birdies out there and shoot a round.

It seems like I always ruin an under par round there by creeping it OB once or twice or up against a wall/tree.

Should be fun though for you guys...I know they mow fairways 2-3 times during the week and only do greens/tees/approach on weekends so during the week conditions >>>>> weekend conditions

Talking stick north was juicy yesterday just greens are too fast lol. I am a good putter and I had five 3 putts I think. Mainly cuz I was leaving myself 40-50 ft from crappy approach shots but damn it was tough to lag inside 4-5 feet out there right now....especially getting a little boozed up and heavy handed. Conditions were solid throughout but we were comped and I couldn't imagine paying $110-$130 or whatever they get to play there!!!

Ended up wigwam heritage course today and god damn the greens are nice right now here...course is easy but greens are the defense right now

somehow managed to double #1 and #10 at Wigwam Heritage and shot 75...played really well other than those two brain farts. Lots of birdie chances out there which made it fun.

also finally getting around to posting a few pics from recent rounds...fyi some pics are instagramed

Wigwam Heritage (only one pic)


Talking Stick North





Quintero (some pics are dark as it was cloudy and played late late afternoon)












Vista Verde

Awesome

intagram feels like it was made for golf course pictures...it's amazing how cool some pics become with just the click of a button.

Quintero always photographs nice. So does Vista Verde for that matter. I suppose it's the lack of houses.

Which course at Wigwam was renamed "Heritage"? Blue or Red (West)?

Did NOT play Orange Tree on Friday, instead called an audible and played Camelback "Ambiente" or however it's spelled. Should have taken pictures but 1) it was an overcast day (albeit plenty warm) and the course really isn't very photogenic. Not a complaint though, just that it's a lot of scrub brush and bunkering.

It's also a hell of a tricky course, mostly around the greens. Pretty insane undulation / roll off coupled with very large green complexes means a hole could play completely differently - even 3+ different ways - depending on where the hole is placed. People who are good enough to think two shots ahead need to think where to hit their drives in order to give themselves the best chance on the approach, be it angle or distance. The greens remind me a bit of Blackstone in terms of crazy shaping and variety.

Also, the fairways were rock hard (so were the tees...hard to get one into the ground). This led to some crazy drives - hit at least one 350+ yards, albeit slightly downwind. But with the firmness of the greens front pin positions were pretty impossible to get close to, particularly downwind. Because we played one tee up to avoid any major stress (around 6600 yards), I had like four birdies but still shot an eight-over 80. So easy to get out of position. I swear like 90% of green misses are somehow short-sided.

Sunday played for the first time since the 90s at Continental. This was a fun round with three women (!), they weren't particularly good at golf but they were good looking and the pace of play was so slow we didn't fall out of position. I asked one of the guys before we started if they had any more containers of divot fill. He said no. I said I wish they did because I take such big divots (not a brag). He just shrugged and said "don't worry, this is Continental". Course was chewed up as could be expected but the greens were nice and sufficiently quick.

One interesting thing I observed on the front nine across the pond on Indian School was what appeared to be a fairly simple minor accident. Two parties exchanging information. Then a police car showed up. Then two, three, and a fourth. This got my attention so I kept an eye on this as we worked our way around the front. Eventually I noticed through my rangefinder that they were giving one of the drivers, a woman, a sobriety test. Not too long after this she was in handcuffs and stuffed into a car. It was about 1:30 in the afternoon.

(I ended up being sideswiped by a woman on the way home from this round but she didn't appear to have been drinking and I called a cop because my insurance card said so, but he showed up for like 30 seconds and all we agreed he wasn't needed.)

Heritage is the Red course