I realize this is a little off topic but I think it is fairly obvious why Tiger hasn't been as dominant as he was in his earlier periods.

When he first came on tour he had two HUGE advantages. First was his length relative to the field. He drove it farther than almost everyone and also hit his irons longer and higher which had a huge advantage as far as GIR and avg. distance to the pin. From 1997-2007 he didn't finish outside of the top 12 in driving distance on tour and was 2nd, 3rd, 6th from 2000-2002. Second was his mental edge. Not only was he trained by his dad to be extremely mentally tough but as his success grew so did his aura and mental confidence to a point where he truly believed he was unstoppable/unbeatable. During this era (2000-2003) he was absolutely absurd and was the greatest version of any golfer ever.

During the 2000s however more of an emphasis on distance occurred. Partially this was due to Tiger himself. You saw short hitters like Toms and Leonard slowly become less and less relavent during this decade. By mid-late 2000s you saw Tiger lose his distance advantage partially because of Haney and partially because of the field simply catching up to him and in a decent number of cases passing him. However he still had the mental edge that it takes to grind out tournaments even against an ever evening competitive landscape and had a very good second peak from 2005-2008 as a result of it.

In 2009 it all came crashing down. First he gets absolutely soulcrushed by YE Yang in the PGA and within a couple months he is hammered running into fire hydrants and getting beaten by his wife. Then his personal laundry is aired and boy is it worse than anyone could ever imagine. As a result his mental edge seems to have mostly disappeared.

The end result is current Tiger. He shows flashes of brilliance, can win on his pet courses like Bay Hill, Muirfield (U.S. Version) and Firestone but rarely wins elsewhere. He hasn't really been in contention on the back nine on Sunday in a major since the 2009 PGA. His two main advantages vs. the fields are gone and a lot of times in golf, once that "greatness" is gone it can be very hard to get back. His distance advantage isn't coming back (He was 71st, 35th, 49th the last 3 years), whether or not he can regain his mental edge remains to be seen.

ETA - Age and injuries obviously play into it as well, but I think the two things i listed above explain probably 85% of the difference from 2001 Tiger and 2014 Tiger.

... and he cannot hit planet earth with his driver

it's almost tragic at this point. Relative to his iron game, Tiger's driving might be the worst of all time.

his swing is irresponsible. foley needs to retire for the good of the game

comon Tiger hit that driver stinger one time

Apparently I have too much time on my hands. Below is a comparison of performances by today's top golfers (according to latest OWGR) in the "5 majors" since the unexpected victory of YE Yang (or Elin Nordegren if you prefer) in 2009. I did this by strokes back, not finishing place, as a perhaps more interesting look at how often a player is in the mix on the weekend.

Enjoy (or not).

So for those tournaments, to finish 6 back or better:

Bubba 3/21 tourneys played
Kuchar 6/24
Tiger 8/19
Furyk 4/24
PMick 7/24
Zach 4/24
Dustin 3/22
Rickie 5/22
Scott 9/24
Rory 6/23
Henny 3/20
Justin 4/22
Garcia 5/24
Day 5/20
Kaymer 6/24
GMac 3/24

Agree w/ NXT. The way he got those scores showed signs of rust and lack of reps -- not anything majorly wrong with his swing or health.

I kind of feel like this is Tiger's last hurrah. I believe he hasn't been healthy the last several years and it has held him back. Now that he is healthy -- he has no excuses and I expect another run from him. If it doesn't happen, then I'll probably resign to admitting he's done.

Also - FWIW, I golfed with a surgeon this past wkend who criticized the procedure TW had done. He said that the pain will return in ~24 months. Hope he's wrong!

Yes.

And likewise, to finish 2 back or better:

Bubba 3/21 tourneys played
Kuchar 2/24
Tiger 1/19
Furyk 3/24
PMick 4/24
Zach 2/24
Dustin 1/22
Rickie 2/22
Scott 3/24
Rory 4/23
Henny 0/20
Justin 1/22
Garcia 2/24
Day 3/20
Kaymer 3/24
GMac 2/24

Or, to finish 8 back or better:

Bubba 3/21 tourneys played
Kuchar 11/24
Tiger 8/19
Furyk 7/24
PMick 9/24
Zach 7/24
Dustin 7/22
Rickie 6/22
Scott 11/24
Rory 9/23
Henny 5/20
Justin 4/22
Garcia 8/24
Day 8/20
Kaymer 8/24
GMac 7/24

Or, to finish 10 back or better:

Bubba 5/21 tourneys played
Kuchar 13/24
Tiger 9/19
Furyk 9/24
PMick 11/24
Zach 11/24
Dustin 8/22
Rickie 9/22
Scott 12/24
Rory 10/23
Henny 10/20
Justin 7/22
Garcia 11/24
Day 10/20
Kaymer 9/24
GMac 7/24

There are various interpretations. Personally, I just enjoyed compiling the data. The compelling narrative to me is that there is a lot of parity in golf today.

That gives him ~8 majors to play and he only needs 5 so its all good

But seriously I hope he's wrong too. I have to imagine Tiger had tons of advice before having his back operated on and knows what he's doing.

This is a huge assumption IMO. We are basing this on what Tiger is telling the public and assuming that is an objective and honest assessment. I think we are also assuming that he isn't going to have other health issues in the near future, even though his history might suggest otherwise.

Time will tell. And it is not on Tiger's side.

I don't think Tiger is healthy enough to swing the club properly, he might never be again. His swing looks like he can't put any pressure whatsoever on his left knee or lower back.

BO

Would be interesting to side by side his swing on an hd slow-mo camera from this past weekend to lets say pga championship 2009 imo.

The one slow motion vid I saw from last weekend had his head going all over (especially down) but this is nothing new for Tiger and has always been a big leak in his swing.

Lol what

If this is in reference to me, it was a segment where Andy North broke down his golf swing I believe Saturday or Sunday morning. There was a railing right behind his head from one of the grandstands and a fixed camera and his head was not close to stable, at one point on the downswing was probably a good 6 inches below where it started. Although like I posted this is nothing new for Tiger and his swing. It has been a big reason his driver has been so inconsistent for so long.

the head dropping is an absolute fundamental part of a properly loaded swing. almost every pro has an obvious head drop either during backswing, downswing or a combo of both. tiger may have certain flaws in his swing right now because he is coming off of injury and not playing for a couple of months, but the head dropping that so many unqualified talking heads like to point out is totally incorrect.

btw. most amateurs have the opposite problem where their head actually lifts up during the backswing which robs them of power.

Yeah, Tiger has done that for the majority of his career. Technically it's too much movement, but it's just one of those things that makes his swing unique. There are other things to be concerned about mechanically.

BO

As nih han has stated, the head dropping being a problem is the LOLest critique of all time.

It is 100% necessary to create power and actually one of the greatest strengths of Tiger's swing. It's not "too much movement", technically speaking.

Also I was loling BO saying it looked like Tiger couldn't put any pressure whatsoever on his left knee or lower back. Just a hilarious statement considering both areas experience quite a bit of force during the golf swing. Was Tiger Woods making golf swings?

GIFSoup

Oh yea, left knee and lower back definitely experiencing no force there.

Dude, we all know you can't swing the club without experiencing some force on the knee and back. Just saying to me his swing is compensating in an extreme way to put as little stress as possible on those parts of his body. And I don't think you can control the ball properly doing what he's doing.

Of course he can probably find a way to win on occasion this way, but it makes me even more concerned about the state of his body.

BO

Your clip shows he is swinging a lot slower, though.

He still can't hit driver on the earth. Would love to see his TM numbers with driver. I'm by no means qualified to know exactly what's going on with his swing, but he's gotta be 2-3 down, which means 5-6 left, to get his resultant path leftward to hit that cut all the time. I don't get it.

Please elaborate on the specifics of the compensations you are seeing.

To me, with the longer clubs it looks like he's got a ton of rotary motion to the point he's just bailing out on the swing to save his left knee and lower back. Exactly the opposite of what he used to do with the snapping motion into that straight left leg. So much rotary motion that he appears to be just wiping at the ball, and it's tough to hit it straight while wiping across it.

Admittedly, I haven't watched tons of slo-mo and stop action, just going by the naked eye.

As an aside, his backswing is noticeably shorter as well. That's not a bad thing per se, but as we've discussed many times before, the longer looser swings are the ones that survive when golfers get older. Just look at how short it's become before the age of 40 and it's only going to get shorter.

BO

For the swing gurus out there:

How different is Tiger's swing compared to some of Foley's other students (Rose, Mahan, etc)? Is it very similar?

Tiger nowadays is much more stacked on his left side at impact, which actually reduces the amount of stress on his knee.

Getting onto your left side also enables you to swing the club "left" which is vitally important to hitting the ball straight if you hit down on the ball like Tiger and all good ball strikers do. You can hit the ball plenty straight "wiping" at it, if you are hitting down on it enough.

With regards to shortness of swing. I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Here's Tiger from last week vs Tiger at the Players last year.


The angle on the left(current Tiger) also would have a tendency to make his backswing look shorter, however there is hardly a noticeable difference between these 2 swings.

Does anyone on Tour hit more down with the driver than TW right now? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head that looks like it. And I don't think it's at all clear that the best drivers off the ball hit down on it anyway. It's a mixed bag. Certainly not to the degree TW does.

And that's where I get a little lost. TW hits down on it a ton, zero path with that means he draws everything. So he has to get the path left to get the resultant path to near zero. But apparently he likes the look of cutting it, so now the path has to get way way left.

What's the thought process behind building a swing where, say, 4 down and 8 left is the goal?

I would guess Tiger doesn't hit down the most, but he's definitely near the top. Why he does this? I have no idea. I've read where he says he hits it farther than he would like when he hits up on it, and feels like he really can't keep it in play(LOL).

I'm not sure of the AoA for the best drivers on Tour(I do know Tour average is down like 1*) but Rory and Bubba are 2 of the best drivers of the ball by a fairly wide margin(with regards to strokes gained driving) and they both hit up on it AFAIK. Bubba for sure, I think he's like +3*-4*.

People incorrectly think hitting down on the ball and therefore increasing spin gives you more control. That is a myth born out of the fact that drives with more spin go shorter and therefore stay in the fairway more often. Of course if you hit a ball 2* off line and hit it 270 as opposed to 300 it has a better chance of ending up in the fairway. Much like a wedge hit 1* offline finishes closer to the hole than a 7 iron his 1* offline. It has nothing to do with hitting down on the ball and spinning it.

Spin(over 2000 rpms) is the worst thing you want to voluntarily add. It costs you distance and performs worse in the wind.