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Butcho22 swing videos part deux - multiple views - comments welcome! Butcho22 swing videos part deux - multiple views - comments welcome!

03-23-2009 , 02:16 AM
how far do you hit the ball?

i dont really know anything to add... your swing is beyond the point of where i can notice stuff. one thing that hank haney is always telling charles barkley is to flatten the swing plane, and it seems like yours is more angled than the "optimum" line he shows charles.
Butcho22 swing videos part deux - multiple views - comments welcome! Quote
03-23-2009 , 02:54 AM
Misc thoughts:

Q-school is up to $5k IIRC.

Technically, the swing looks pretty good overall. But everything about it looks mechanical and manufactured. Perhaps that can change through many hours of grooving. I would prefer you not stand over the ball near so long.

I have yet to see any video of shots from 60 yards and in. The area where tournaments are won or lost. We're only seeing half your shots so far. No matter how good your swing is, the object of the game is to get the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible.

And take this for what it's worth, if you totally dismiss it I'll understand. But no matter the conditions, I very rarely see a top level player, pro or amateur, practice in jeans. Many courses don't allow denim as I'm sure you know, and it just doesn't look professional. Just some food for thought to file away in the mental section of your golf file. Or not.

BO
Butcho22 swing videos part deux - multiple views - comments welcome! Quote
03-23-2009 , 03:22 AM
Well, I am no teaching professional nor aspiring pgatour golfer, but you look like you are across the line, so you clear your hips early in order to get the club through. Reminds me of Kenny Perry.
Butcho22 swing videos part deux - multiple views - comments welcome! Quote
03-23-2009 , 08:02 PM
Haven't read any other replies yet so I'll post mine and see if we're all in agreement Really like the idea of posters doing this video analysis!

wedge
Looks like you're a little unbalanced when you finish the downswing and wobble a bit. Hard to tell from the video but it looks like you need to move the ball away from you ~2-3in. and also widen your stance a bit. In my experience we tend to feel more comfortable at address with short irons being closer to the ball and our feet closer together than a good swing requires, so it takes some getting used to, but those changes lead to a more balanced swing and a flatter swing plane.

The backswing looks on plane for the most part but like I said a bit too upright as you can see from the distance between your right elbow and your side, that elbow should be a bit closer to your body. Also you're losing some power by your lower body not retaining tension, your right knee collapses a bit and it looks like you're pushing the swing a bit with your left knee coming in to far. When that happens you're not building much power in your waist and you'll compensate by getting too "handsy" and moving away from the ball a bit, instead of maintaining a straight spine from address and using the torque in your midsection to power the ball. This also can be caused by not having your stance wide enough and the ball in the proper position.

The downswing looks ok, but you're moving a fair amount from the inside out, which usually happens when you try to correct the swing plane from being too upright. Again this will naturally be fixed by a flatter swing plane and a good address position. Also if you watch your hands in the follow through, they're collapsing in to the body too low and quick. I think ideally they should be extending towards the target a bit more as your right hand passes over the left at impact and extends towards where you're aiming until the body turn brings the arms back in a balanced finish. Not that this is something you should be thinking of or trying to feel, it should just naturally happen with a good swing.

The good things, your tempo seems really good and your posture is nice, I think the biggest flaw is just some miscues in club and ball positioning at address.

driver
Your drives look good, nice address and tempo, but again looks like you're coming over the top at the start of the downswing (inside-out) a bit. Your lower body looks a lot more balanced throughout the swing though than with your wedge, and I'm guessing you probably hit it decently far. The best swing tip I've heard for starting the downswing, and it's a good thought regardless of what's going on with your backswing, is to start the downswing by dropping your right elbow in towards your body and complete your normal downswing. It helps maintain the power in your wrists and waist (instead of starting the downswing by unwinding the lower body too soon or coming after the ball with your hands and breaking swing plane and wrist angle), and sets the club more often than not on the proper swing plane, and is just a good place tempo wise to start. That'd me my only real suggestion.
Butcho22 swing videos part deux - multiple views - comments welcome! Quote
03-23-2009 , 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenda
Honestly it looks worse, you're getting into some really awful positions at multiple points in your backswing, and even though it appears shorter it actually seems to be on a worse plane than before.
I know it's a ton of work to do but it would be great if you could elaborate on this?

At least something about the positions you don't like would be great. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeotaJMU
how far do you hit the ball?
I'll be getting on a launch monitor as soon as I get down to AZ and I'll post my stats from that when I'm done.

Full 8 iron from 155 with no wind.

Quote:
i dont really know anything to add... your swing is beyond the point of where i can notice stuff. one thing that hank haney is always telling charles barkley is to flatten the swing plane, and it seems like yours is more angled than the "optimum" line he shows charles.
Something Haney said on one of those episodes really made me happy. He said that if you can do it in slow motion you can do it in fast motion, and on the range, and eventually on the course, etc.

Unless I develop a better way of progressing on my own it looks like a good instructor will be what it takes to get things in order. I can do things in slow motion that I just can't full speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntnBO
Misc thoughts:

Q-school is up to $5k IIRC.

Technically, the swing looks pretty good overall. But everything about it looks mechanical and manufactured. Perhaps that can change through many hours of grooving. I would prefer you not stand over the ball near so long.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I never stand over the ball that long on the course. I guess I'm just really focusing on a certain feeling at the range...that might not be good but I just don't feel ready to hit the shot.

I think as you say eventually once I'm done working on my swing and I've grooved it much better it will be more fluid. I'm not so much worried about that right now as I am getting in better positions. (I realize they might go hand-in-hand)

Quote:
I have yet to see any video of shots from 60 yards and in. The area where tournaments are won or lost. We're only seeing half your shots so far. No matter how good your swing is, the object of the game is to get the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible.
Right. I just feel like my full swing needs enough work that I stand nothing to gain from posting half wedge shots at this point.

Quote:
And take this for what it's worth, if you totally dismiss it I'll understand. But no matter the conditions, I very rarely see a top level player, pro or amateur, practice in jeans. Many courses don't allow denim as I'm sure you know, and it just doesn't look professional. Just some food for thought to file away in the mental section of your golf file. Or not.

BO
Spoken like a true old schooler

Seriously though, I usually go to the range straight from work, and they're loose enough that it doesn't have an impact on my swing. Trust me, I wish I could just put some slacks on and be like Tiger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by POKEROMGLOL
Well, I am no teaching professional nor aspiring pgatour golfer, but you look like you are across the line, so you clear your hips early in order to get the club through. Reminds me of Kenny Perry.
I agree. Hate to keep repeating myself, but I'm just having trouble changing/fixing it on my own.
Butcho22 swing videos part deux - multiple views - comments welcome! Quote
03-23-2009 , 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerMoney
IMO, it looks great. I think you look really in control at transition.
Thanks. It's tough for me to know what's really going on cuz it feels good and the ball flight looks good.

I wish I was a professional instructor sometimes so I could better analyze my own swing haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weevil
Haven't read any other replies yet so I'll post mine and see if we're all in agreement Really like the idea of posters doing this video analysis!

wedge
Looks like you're a little unbalanced when you finish the downswing and wobble a bit. Hard to tell from the video but it looks like you need to move the ball away from you ~2-3in. and also widen your stance a bit. In my experience we tend to feel more comfortable at address with short irons being closer to the ball and our feet closer together than a good swing requires, so it takes some getting used to, but those changes lead to a more balanced swing and a flatter swing plane.

The backswing looks on plane for the most part but like I said a bit too upright as you can see from the distance between your right elbow and your side, that elbow should be a bit closer to your body. Also you're losing some power by your lower body not retaining tension, your right knee collapses a bit and it looks like you're pushing the swing a bit with your left knee coming in to far. When that happens you're not building much power in your waist and you'll compensate by getting too "handsy" and moving away from the ball a bit, instead of maintaining a straight spine from address and using the torque in your midsection to power the ball. This also can be caused by not having your stance wide enough and the ball in the proper position.

The downswing looks ok, but you're moving a fair amount from the inside out, which usually happens when you try to correct the swing plane from being too upright. Again this will naturally be fixed by a flatter swing plane and a good address position. Also if you watch your hands in the follow through, they're collapsing in to the body too low and quick. I think ideally they should be extending towards the target a bit more as your right hand passes over the left at impact and extends towards where you're aiming until the body turn brings the arms back in a balanced finish. Not that this is something you should be thinking of or trying to feel, it should just naturally happen with a good swing.

The good things, your tempo seems really good and your posture is nice, I think the biggest flaw is just some miscues in club and ball positioning at address.

driver
Your drives look good, nice address and tempo, but again looks like you're coming over the top at the start of the downswing (inside-out) a bit. Your lower body looks a lot more balanced throughout the swing though than with your wedge, and I'm guessing you probably hit it decently far. The best swing tip I've heard for starting the downswing, and it's a good thought regardless of what's going on with your backswing, is to start the downswing by dropping your right elbow in towards your body and complete your normal downswing. It helps maintain the power in your wrists and waist (instead of starting the downswing by unwinding the lower body too soon or coming after the ball with your hands and breaking swing plane and wrist angle), and sets the club more often than not on the proper swing plane, and is just a good place tempo wise to start. That'd me my only real suggestion.
Lotta good info, thanks. I'm in a rush so can't reply with all my thoughts but thanks for taking the time to post this and I'll get to it later.
Butcho22 swing videos part deux - multiple views - comments welcome! Quote
03-24-2009 , 12:37 AM
Another thing that should be said is that if you can repeat what you are doing, just do it. For example, I need to work on my swing because I don't hit it quite as far as I would like to be as good as I can be, and I am constantly fighting a hook, even though on some days it is non existent. But you look like you are hitting it pretty solid. So if you like your length, feel like you can repeat that over and over and over again, just go with it. 8 iron from 155 should be fine. Just don't become one of those guys that gets so obsessed with the swing that you forget how to play golf. There are plenty of ugly swings in the top 100 of the OWGR (and your swing isn't "ugly" anyway).
Butcho22 swing videos part deux - multiple views - comments welcome! Quote
03-24-2009 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcho22
Right. I just feel like my full swing needs enough work that I stand nothing to gain from posting half wedge shots at this point.
take this as just random 2 cents from a 20 handicapper, but i was watching Geoff Ogilvy's playing with the pros, and he commented that the more he practices half-shots, the better overall his full swing becomes. i held on to that advice for the past 4-6 weeks, and i can honestly say that it has some merit. but YMMV.

good luck, and let me know if you are ever playing in VA!
Butcho22 swing videos part deux - multiple views - comments welcome! Quote

      
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