According to most comments online you will most likely need to show proof of income, even with soft power. Even many agencies wont take you on if you can't provide proof of income. Good luck explaining that your money comes from poker. Also will have to stay outside of Thailand anywhere from a few days to a few weeks depending on the embassy.


So you're looking at 10k for the dtv application fee, + travel expenses (flights, hotel etc for undetermined amount of time) + whatever the soft power organization charges for their confirmation letter (muay thai 30k +, some cooking schools just 10k). If you're lucky enough to avoid needing proof of income, there's still a decent chance you get rejected and wasted a bunch of money and time.


I Just paid 80k to an agency to get it over with.

No experience with either. Self-diagnosed ADHD - would like to experiment with ritalin to see if it changes anything. I'm also an expat where I live and the "try X in Thailand, tell own doctor I tried X abroad and it helped" is a good basic strat to get anything you want prescribed.

I'm in the same boat as you. Took me forever to figure out I'm probably ADHD.
Now I'll probably spend the next two years researching the treatment options.

As for my unimportant opinion I think we're all somewhere on the ADHD apectrum. Using aocial media, quick clicking not talking time to digest any news or whatever. Can't be too beneficial to the brain. But the cure isn't exactly free of issues either. Let's just be Frank, all of the available meds on the market so far basically suggest microdosing some form of amphetamine. Hmm, if you don't understand what the backdraws of these are, you might wanna explore a bit further. And ofc all of these probably feature addivitity issues. Just as well, with each of these meds, pretty sure you just take 5-10x the regular dose, whoosh you're back in ecstasy clubland haha...

No, I was just curious, I have Elite visa.

I'm looking into LTR next, I got the documents from the bank to open investment account but I've been lazy to fill them. They ask for a lot but nothing impossible.

Requirements depend on the embassy where you apply. AFAIK the medical/activity trick is only working in Jakarta.

Why did you choose to pay 80k if you can pay a muay thi 30k or a cooking shcool 10k ?

FWIW I got the DTV (workcation), no agency. Not gonna give too many details semi-publicly, but let's just say I have some activities to back that up, but probably wasn't an ideal candidate. Jakarta embassy. (No it was not about poker or crypto). Can't comment about agencies, I looked up a few but they all seemed to have mixed reviews. They might be able to help you find suitable courses for the soft-power route if you can't or are too lazy to review them yourself, that would be conceivable...

I'm also interested in getting an LTR, I found a provision in the rules, kind of hidden, under which I might qualify and I don't have to buy crazy amounts of Thai bonds. But for that I would probably actually need to get an agency and also a suitable health insurance first. I think the DTV is better at least for me at this point, even with the bank account issues I am aware of. I hope they find a solution for that, reportedly it was just because of a large group of scammers from a certain nationality anyway.

I mean I've been to the LOS a lot, but never really lived there long-term, want to check out how that is first. I could have done the elite visa, I almost bought it under the old prices when they had that super special deal for 20 years just before they hiked the rates. (It was like 1k USD a year (20k for 20years) IIRC) but under the new prices, no, sorry, it wouldn't hurt me, but it goes against my budgeting rules to spend that much only on a visa.

I have spent considerable time in Thailand and Cambodia. They’re probably some of the nicest people in the world easily could say within the top five.

Felt safe walking anywhere in Thailand and Cambodia.

Because even with soft power, you have to provide proof of income. My income is all from poker.

I had to sign a declaration at bkk that I couldnt come back in on a tourist visa (only 3rd entry on new passport with 4 months overseas in between) so I didnt want to risk getting stuck in Cambo or wherever for who knows how long.

Cambodia is cool because you can get a six month visa and just keep on renewing it each time for $180 or so perhaps a little less.

What is the situation with Thailand. I’m not up-to-date with their visa. Can you get a six month visa cheap ? And then just do Visa runs after?

You had to do this in immigration office when extending visa? They said you could never return on tourist visa or for a certain time period? I never heard of this before.

So like my latest info (actually has been so for quite some time AFAIK) is what you describe about Cambo is correct, but the price is a little bit higher more like 300 per 6 months. But yes, still renewable indefinitely AFAIK, with no questions asked, just gotta pay the peeps off. I mean unless you've done something really bad I suppose and in Cambo. I don't mean the usual debauchery.
Maybe if you have good contacts you can get it for that price but I've heard other prices. I've never done this myself but have some friends there and am there like semi-frequently like 2x a year, just been there in August for two weeks. That's all like for PP, I've not been elsewhere since Covid. If you are at some cheapshot place like Kampot maybe prices are lower I could certainly see that.
To answer your question, no the visa situation for TH is not great as usual. You can get 60+30 days with a one-time extension relatively easily but that's a one-time thing, the more border runs with relatively little time in between you do after that, the higher your chances of being denied, and it seems based on general reporting they are cracking down on border runs, and even if you do it successfully it will hurt your chances of getting a "good" visa afterwards.
So it appears you can still get a "questionable" education or volunteer visa, usually one year, one time, if you choose your agents wisely but it will cost you more than in Cambo. And will also hurt your chances of getting a "good" visa later.
What is good visa? Good visas are elite visa ofc (but freaking expensive), LTR visa (various strings attached, depending on your route, if you ask in this forum you probably do not qualify anyway), retirement visa if you're 50+, or (arguably) DTV. The DTV is not as good as the others since you have to leave the country every 180 days (you can renew once but reportedly it's more of a PITA than leaving and re-entering) and also comes with some strings attached. At the moment it appears to be impossible to open a bank account with the DTV, for example, also TH in general has a lot more reporting requirements and loops you have to go through than Cambo. But hey, ofc it's a bigger, more developed, and arguably more interesting country than Cambo with very many supernice peeps. But culturally very similar to Cambo on a global scale. Hope this helps.

Interesting about DTV not allowing you to open a bank account. I had one for years and it got closed after doing too much P2P on binance where I probably traded one or more times with the manny scammers that use this method to swap their THB to crypto. Isn't there any agency or workaround to open an account on a DTV or even TV? Back when I did mine I was on a TV and it was something stupid, like 1.5k THB with an agency, it hurts to know that is not that easy no more.

With regards to Cambodia, it was at the Aeon mall in Pnomh penh where I’m almost certain I paid around $180 for a six month visa extension. There is a tourism agency office in the mall by the bank locations that takes care of this process.

Thank you much for the information about Thailand. As Thailand does not have a casino yet I don’t think I would consider going there long-term.

In Cambodia, I have been to PP, Siam reap and Sihanoukville….Siam Reap is very nice. Good atmosphere high quality air. Nicer looking roads and restaurants compared to why the parts of the country. And of course they have Ankor Wat one of the most famous temples in the world.

I agree that Thailand in general is more developed compared to Cambodia. I have spent time in Bangkok and Pattaya …I feel Bangkok is as developed(at least many parts of it) if not nicer compared to a lot of western cities. I have a friend who told me he paid something like 25,000 USD for a long-term visa in Thailand I don’t remember the duration, but it was at for at least 15 years if not, 25 years. With no strings attached.

Now Cambodia has made significant progress in the past 10 years … the hope is that such progress continues. We will see how that goes. One of the perks about Cambodia is you can open up a bank account there with as much as a six-month visa.

So the situation appears to be, not only can you not open an account with a DTV presently, you also cannot open an account on any tourist visa (except elite visa) and they are also successively closing accounts of all peeps who are not on a resident visa (except elite visa, and those who own property). How fast this will be would depend on your bank. And there seems to be no way around it no matter how shady it is.
The problem appears to be, they don't want to say that exactly, but reportedly there were a large number of peeps (reportedly, just hearsay, mainly from the middle kingdom, but not only from there) who were abusing the DTV and other tourist visas to set up a lot of scam rings based in TH. So this appears to be an order right from the top, in the typical Asian totalitarian way, and not much you can do about it. If anyone knows a way around it, I'd be very much interested, thank you.

That's interesting, (sorry for all that OT btw), probably my mates are just too attached/lazy to find new agents. Generally speaking, in PP there seems to have been a kind of shift anyway. In the old days, basically before Covid, the effective center of town appeared to have been on riverside (like in between the famous hooker streets and a little bit further esp in the south). Now all that seems to be left there is basically just that, redlight and some restaurants, other supporting businesses. And the effective center of town now appears to be very much south of the independence monument. Like where Aeon mall is and also Naga and many other businesses.

I'm not sure if it still is like that but before Covid Siem Reap was kind of funny, like there there was that SR that you are referring to, yeah it's nicer by most measures than PP for sure, but also more expensive and super artificial, make no mistake it's a tourist town, a lot of locals would work there, but almost no local would live there because way too expensive. And then there was the other SR, which was like, you know, a typical Cambodian town, no modern facilities, poverty, a lot of life happening on the street etc. And you could literally walk across the street to get from one part to the other. But probably many tourists would only see that one part, because there was not really anything of interest to the tourist on that other side. Not sure how it developed since then.
Sihanoukville, before Covid, was also in a really bad state, not sure current affairs. It used to be a lovely hippy beach town, like over 10 years ago, then the Chinese took over and transformed it into some Cambodian Tijuana or something...

Yes that's the elite visa, and the offer I was referring to like 10 to 20 posts above here, I think it was also widely discussed on this channel here when it happened, I almost took it, but it only lasted for a few weeks or something. It was around 20k USD for 20 years. But the regular price before then was 600k baht (a little less than 20k USD) for 5 years, then there was that special closing down sale you were referring to, then it was 900k baht for 5 years. Since that appeared to be widely unpopular they changed it again to 650k for 5 years (so around 20k USD) but ofc that's a much worse offering, that's like 4k USD a year, you can get a rent in a perfectly fine apartment in TH for that, not in BKK or on the popular islands, but like Chiang Mai, Pattaya, other parts. So you're paying an extra rent, just for the visa. You get some perks for it like a VIP lane, and I think also a lounge at BKK, and a few things like that, but really nothing that would remotely qualify that price, that's the problem.
That offer, yes, that was ok, if I had known how things develop I would take it in an instant now, but it's all missed opportunities of the past, unlikely to come back.

At the airport on arrival, they threw me in the back room for an hour and grilled me about spending too much time in Thailand while only using tourist visas. In the end they let me enter on a tourist visa but I had to sign a document stating they would refuse entry next time without a long term visa. Not sure if they'd actually enforce it but yeah.

There are agencies you can pay to garantee safe entry, AFAIK it's 3k.

Interrested to know more about the loophole.
Also I haven't found anything about how long you need to hold the bonds, so you might be able to buy the bonds, do the process sell them and have the visa.
But yeah, it's 500k$, not sure how easy the bank will let you transfer in/out that kind of money.

That's super ****ing annoying, can't picture myself living in Thailand without promptpay

Also not sure how to get THB with crypto, any ideas?

Bitkub is good but if you cant open thai bank then youll need to know someone who has one. also in chinatown bkk there are people buying/selling usdt.. I have seen chinese language signs for it though not used myself.

I would certainly agree that Bangkok is far ahead of any major city in Cambodia. In terms of the aesthetics, the infrastructure… now the downside of Bangkok would be the brutal traffic. Going to take quite a bit longer to get from point A to point B in Bangkok compared to PP…. Plus I believe that there are more rainy days in Bangkok compared to most places in Cambodia… I find it interesting that Thailand has seemingly made it very expensive for foreigners to live in the country long-term. I suppose there are pros and cons to this. Either way I have a lot of respect for the well developed areas of Bangkok. It’s not just the mega malls but the parks as well which are well maintained. I enjoyed the area by the central world mall and EmQuarter…. I forget which one has a food court where you shop for your food and then give it to a cook and they make it right for you on the spot.

Sihanoukville which is in southern Cambodia is a city with lots of potential. Not too long ago it was mostly a jungle. And some people argue that it should’ve stayed that way ie remain a sort of place for hippies and those types. .. time will tell and it is a port city so again the potential is there.But other than casinos and an Island(Koh Rung) which I think is mostly for young party people and old hippies I don’t think there’s much to do. There was one major shopping mall in the whole city the U mall and it gets boring after not very long. I suppose for the traveler who wants to see an island that has not been very commercialized Koh Rung is the place…. There’s no high rises there. It doesn’t have the same type of tourist feelings as perhaps some of the islands in Thailand do…It’s hard to get an internet signal in many places of the island. But the natural beauty is something to appreciate. The casinos in Sihanouk have a downside with lots of potential collusion in many of the Poker rooms perhaps with exception to DV casino… then on top of that the rake is astronomical in most of the Poker groups there again with exception to DV(even this location has issues like lots of house players) and most people smoke at the table so if that’s an issue for you… Sihanouk was hurt by the coronavirus lockdowns and about a few years ago A lot of Chinese business people were kicked out of the country because of connections to shady online casinos. It was the same Chinese businessmen who were responsible for building the high-rise buildings that were suddenly halted due to a combination of the lockdowns and Chinese being kicked out of that part of the country. Hence the many ghost buildings people will see in Sihankoville. Of course there are over 1 billion Chinese most of them cool people as only a sliver of them have caused trouble in Cambodia.

I cannot speak of what Siam Reap looked like five or 10 years ago. I visited earlier this year. Frankly, I thought the prices there were actually lower compared to Pnomh Penh at least in terms of food. I cannot speak of real estate or renting properties of which is high in Sihankoville but lower in pnomh penh. The Cambodians I speak with in PP almost all say that they love Siam Reap…of course Ankor Wat can create a tourist trap, but there are tons of Cambodians who go to the city to visit the temple as well. Cambodians do not have to pay anything to get into the temple compared to non-Cambodians so this could be a draw for Cambodian people who largely have a low salary. Plus Siam reap doesn’t have the hustle and bustle feeling that Phnom Penh does. It’s more low key and laid-back.

Lost my Bangkok bank account recently which I opened about a year ago after I got my DTV. Definitely didn't need proof of income for soft power at the time. Only had to prove soft power activity and savings.

If that's changed I'd be surprised as I haven't seen the official requirements change but each consulate has always implemented their own rules which is fun.

From what I understand true money and other wallets that aren't bank accounts can still be used.


Re: Cambodia

Siam is Thailand it's siem reap not Siam reap. Siem reap is definitely much cheaper than both phnom Penh and sihanoukville these days. Average salary probably highest in sihanouk.

While the visa and banking situation in Cambodia is less expensive with easier and smaller paperwork renewal it's also going through some instability due to scamming. The last few months agents weren't able to do self employed work permit which is needed for 1 year visa unless you can prove employment or retirement.

fun fact its the khmer word for siam. The name means something like "defeat of siam".

This is so brutal.
Thailand just never ceases to amaze in logic.
Crying over dropping tourism but let's just purge all foreigner's bank accounts no questions asked which are people dumping all kinds of disposable income into the local economy (compared to their local Thai counterparts at least).
Even the low end of long term stay foreigners pulling in maybe 40k bt a month, they're dumping it all into their rent, the local noodle shop, etc... and there could be upwards of 100,000+ plus of them. It's not nothing when you do the math.

What is was talking about was not a loophole, it's a provision that I've never seen discussed at relevant forums/groups. I'm not sure if that's because it doesn't work or there are too few of them, or just like peeps don't know about it, because it's kind of hidden, it's not in any overview, you have to go and read the text in the files on the BOI website.
So without going into too much detail (would reveal a lot of personal info), I was not on about any of the "wealthy" sections. For like years I was only looking at these too because I thought these were the only ones I could eventually use. So like if you have any kind of relevant like university degree or something like that in any of the target areas, which are pretty broad, and maybe some work experience, look at the "highly-skilled professionals" section, and read the whole text in the files, not just the starting site. Not sure if this would work or not. Obv I have no interest in taking up a relevant job in Thailand, but again, read the whole text, if it might apply to you. Probably would need to schedule an interview with Thai Visa Center or something, might do later in the year. Also happy to discuss via PM.

So the bonds, if in and out would work, that would also be interesting, yes. You would need to do this with a low-cost broker, with a bank the fees will probably kill you, you might as well buy an elite visa. But probably easily doable with like Interactive Brokers or a few others. But I doubt this will work. Again, if that would work it would probably be talked about more.


Yeah, that's not their strong suit, for sure.

AND: Here we go again
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand...ly-being-legal

ABA Bank in Cambodia is pretty rock solid. As it is backed by a Canadian company. Once you open the account you’re all set…. Which is very easy all you need is a six month visa.

The scam issue is well known in the international world with regards to Cambodia. Many different documentaries about this. Can be avoided by simply not responding to the spam texts you will get on your phone and on telegram for example when in Cambodia.

Siem reap roughly translates into “Thailand defeated” from a major war perhaps around 500 years ago where the Cambodian Kingdom(Khmer Empire) defeated the Siam Empire(Thailand). Of course the Khmer Empire was once a powerhouse controlling much of modern day Thailand, Laos and perhaps some of Vietnam.

Of course today Thailand is quite a bit ahead of Cambodia in terms of development …I respect the history and the people of both countries. Hope that border issue does not flare up again.

Hey everyone,

I am currently living in Thailand, grinding out a living as a poker player full time.

Due to current regulations, it is becoming more and more of a consideration to apply for a DTV visa in Thailand.

Have you or anyone you know applied for a DTV Visa as a poker pro.

If so, please let me know, and thanks for any advice in advance.

Cheers.