As I said, I dodged the question some. I explained to him that I just finished studying and came over to travel and experience Portugal. I made it clear that I was not looking for a job in Portugal (though not 100% sure he got that, because I said that I had a skill set that allows me to work in almost any company (I studied applied economics)) and that I had income from Internet business (didn't go into detail on this, he didn't ask though). Didn't say any more than that.
I wasn't dressed that formally, but I don't think I made a bad impression. Sounds like I may need to get out the iron though ^^.

I guess a more aggressive strategy of using the poker player opening might be appropriate. I don't like bull****ting around anyway. Worst case scenario I'll have to take an air b'n'b short term rental at the end of the month. Cheaper than paying hotels all the time and should give me some more flexibility. I've already enquired regarding Internet with no contract and it's not cheap, but you can play poker on it no problem. Health insurance will be a little trickier. I'll have to get some private insurance with no local address even though I am an EU citizen. Though maybe I can still get local health insurance if I am staying in a short term rental... will have to check. Also maybe I can get a bank account from Portugal and register it to a UK address. I mean my main bank account is currently German. I'll go and ask about that today. Any bank recommendations?

FWIW what I did was download the last 3 months of bank statements on my main bank account that show enough cash inflow to cover the apartment plus like gas, water and electricity. I also downloaded a years worth of transaction showing that I was able to cover rent for my place in Austria which had almost the same rent as the place in question, but it may not even come to that. If somebody says "I will think about" in an apparently bad real estate economy then that's not a good sign imo.

Don't say that. I am also an EU citizen and what the agent was explaining to me was that in Portugal there was more red tape than in other countries. He looked at me incredulously when I explained to him that I got a place in Austria by saying that I was a student with no questions asked, saying that Austrians must be very trustworthy.
My Mother, who is a landlord in England, was telling me that in England landlords are insured against people not paying the rent and was surprised he was that concerned about me running out on the contract.
I can understand that they prefer somebody who says they are planning to live in the same place for 1 year plus though with verifiable documentation of income proof etc., but yea as I said luckily I think those tenants are somewhat rare currently. I told him I don't plan on staying for more than 12 months, but you never know.

There used to be a Cardrunners pro called fruitypro. I think he always just paid six months rent in advance to get places... This was in the UK though.

Btw, just received a reply from that place. My application was rejected :/.

Hmm well I think you should try not to deal with agencies directly if possible.olx.pt you might find the lanlords directly more on that site?agencies are always *******s because they are working for someone else.I also just meant I was lucky I didn't have to apply for residency as a non EU person..FBI checks etc etc sounds tedious.I feel like a jinx now.also had a **** day plans wise...can't leave for Portugal until September 8th.

Yea, it's definitely not comparable to what Sly went through. I don't think the agency was the problem. I think I had decent rapport with the guy who was handling the apartment. He said he would have let the place to me and I believe him.
Thanks for that site. Hadn't really gotten past remax and casa.sapo, though this specific place was from an agency called Futurama. Saw their sign in the window and looked them up on Google.
Right now I am looking at a very central apartment through airbnb that I could rent at an acceptable price on a monthly basis. Will see how that turns out.
Walked round Sao Sebastiao today and near Baixa. Sao Sebastiao near where El Corte Ingles is seems like a pretty nice area with good access to everything, will research that area some.
I'm sorry to hear your trip to Portugal has been delayed, hope everything works out.

Yeah sucks pretty bad but me and friend are going to have a road trip through england France and Spain in September so not all negative,allows me to bring my stuff too and build a new computer and buy monitors that I want without worrying about shipping etc gonna book hols in Thailand for a couple of weeks to keep me sane in the Irish rain.if you do see a house with an agency Google the address or look at other sites for the same place too..you will find varying prices with different adverts sometimes.if you are able to find and deal with landlords directly your room for negotiation is also bigger as they can lower their cost a lot because they avoid extortionate agency fees..you might be blessed to have failed on that other place in the long run.

Yea, you might be right. Thanks for the tips.

Anywhere near those metro stops from Sao Sebastao down to Baixa (marqes pombal, avenida, parque, picoas, etc) would be nice and convenient.

Might have a place now in Sao Sebastiao that is fully furnished and with a washing machine for six months. I really need to get a fiscal number though, gonna try and get that tomorrow.
Thoughts on Internet providers? The real estate agent I was speaking too told me to ask people from around the area which packages are currently good. I am more concerned with reliability naturally.

Awesome! Is it a decent place?how did it play out this time with the agent? The Fiscal I hear is pretty easy.you just apply for a non resident fiscal and show your passport and you get it in a couple of days.the office if you don't know it already is direccao giral das finances/autoridade tributaria e aduaneira(this is 100% spelled wrong) and has ****loads of squiggly lines and accents I can't be bothered to do.internet I hear is pretty good in Portugal.I think they installed fibre lines all over a while back..I'm sure sly and deep and the other dudes living there know the best 1 for poker players.congrats on not being homeless

It's actually quite typical that now that I have agreed to take a place, I am getting multiple offers from people who actually want to let to me. I have sort of agreed to taking the place in Sao Sebastiao (haven't signed a contract yet though), but there is also I believe a French guy who wants to rent his place short to medium long so 2-12 months whom I found over airbnb, but then googled and managed to get his direct contact info (his suggestion, saves fees and is more flexible). There is also a poker player friend of a friend from Portugal who wants me to check out some place that he thinks will be a good solution for me...
This time round the convo went pretty well, I sort of changed my approach some by being more open in my initial contact and gave away a lot of information regarding what I've been doing till now, my age, why I am interested in the place etc. It feels kind of silly, because it's like your writing a letter of motivation to a university or something. Anyway I think it gave me better rapport with the agent and indirectly the landlord. When the dreaded income question came up I hesitated a bit, but then said I play poker professionally and she was intrigued by that. The owner was also cool with it, but said that because nobody can vouch for me he would request a deposit of one month's rent which is in addition to the 2 months rent you pay in advance that seems standard here currently (due to the economic situation I was told). I'm also showing them some deposits I made from Moneybookers to my primary bank account over the last three months, which seems a little random since they will already have three months rent from me and I'm only signing a six month contract, but whatever, there isn't a ton of personal information on that account, I just use it for cash.

Regarding the fiscal number, I was gonna go to this place: http://www.portaldocidadao.pt/PORTAL...tauradores.htm tomorrow and from what I can tell here: http://portugal.angloinfo.com/moving...al-number-nif/ you can get the number immedeately. I think that is where I need to go. It's connected to the Direccao Giral das Finances I believe. In any case I'll be going first thing in the morning, so if I'm in the wrong place they should be able to point me in the right direction and I should be able to find it before the relevant department closes.

Yea, Internet, as D33P mentioned is solid in Portugal, I just think I need to dodge MEO and/or tmn. Am gonna go with Optimus if I get no input on this (I keep on asking Portuguese people on Skype, but haven't gotten any answers yet lol). I will be talking to a player from Lisbon in a bit, he should have a solution.

Thanks.

Found this on Google regarding obtaining a NIF:

Which Google Translate gives out as:

So I believe yea you can go to either the place you suggested or the one I found and you will receive a number immediately.

Source: http://www.siteoficial.net/como-obter-um-nif/

That's typical! The first agents obviously put the scares on you.do whatever suits you though.if you can get a better place get 1.if you have a tonne of decent offers...time to haggle the **** out of it I think. agents are under serious pressure these days..and they are generally up there with lawyers and bankers for being dislikeable so I really wouldn't care much about hurting their feelings.

BTW have you been doing anything cool besides looking for houses with your days/nights? Do you know anybody there etc?Really wanna hear what people have to say about the 5\10 at the casino too

The financas office is where you get the fiscal number. Multiple locations. There is one in baixa and another in expo that I went to.

Zon is good for internet I believe.

Waited for about 3 hours at the Loja de Cidadao in Restauradores today. Had to speak Portuguese with everybody there, lol. So embarassing, didn't even know what morada meant (residence or address in the context it came up). Anyway she said something about me being an EU citizen and I need to get some sort of proof of that or certificate from Camare Municiapl de Lisboa. Since today is Saturday and it was already almost 2pm, I didn't bother with that, because I didn't know if it was open or where to go (it's in Entrecampos). Will go there on Monday.

Haven't really done much, no. I've been walking around a ton though trying to feel out areas and the people that live there. So I've been in a ton of parks and some local cafes and have probably checked out a bunch of landmarks. I went to a restaurant with D33P when I arrived here to get something to eat, if that counts for evening entertainment ^^. I've been to the cinema twice in Sao Sebastiao, because I love movies and I wanted to see Iron Man 3 and Trance. I was going to go the beach in Carcavelos today, but it was canceled sadly, because somebody got ill. I mean fwiw, there is a lot to see if you just walk around. Like I was originally in Oeiras in Paco de Arcos and I took the train from there to Cais do Sodre and it's literally a train ride with ocean view all along the way. It's definetly a beautiful city and also very sunny.

@ Sly

Ok thanks, will check out Zon. Btw, did you tell the financas office that you play poker professionally? A local player here told me not to tell them that, he also told me some other things that I've been told I shouldn't take too serously, but yea I mean based on what you have said in this thread, you would have told them you play professionally right. I mean that's what I was gonna do, we'll see.

Just went trough the whole thread,thanks for all the info ! Im looking to move to portugal around july (mid-july ish). Ive went trough some websites to rent places but i couldnt figure out what area is like good. When i was looking for algarve u have a few area's to pick from. Does it matter ? Looking to be somewhere close to the beach and nightlife aswell.

Thanks !

They aren't going to care about that. You can tell them if they ask. Btw, my experience with them (and others have confirmed this) is that the specific documents you need for the fiscal number (or anything else official here) will vary depending on who you talk to. You will probably take that certificate in next time and talk to a different clerk and they will ask you what the f it is. I had to go back 3 times I think with different documents until I finally got lucky.

Let me know when you get settled. I'm real close to Sao Sebastao.

3 hours? I think ill bring my laptop to grind!sounds tedious.Yeah I hear the Portuguese have a weird idea of organisation,I've seen tournament schedules that are barely legible lol.yeah you can go almost anywhere from cais da sodre,the transport is good there.the awesome thing about the cinemas there is they don't dub!major plus As I'm a movie junkie and can't watch anything that way.well meeting deep is an event I guess,it would be funny to meet people here in real life as I have actually no idea who they are and what age bar their screen names.

Oh and if you go to belem and want a cafe don't forget to go here http://www.pasteisdebelem.pt/ so good! Don't think its mentioned here how good the pasteis due nata\belem are

@ Tabasco

Sorry, I can't help you much with Algarve. Maybe D33P knows something.

@ Sly

Yea, I feel pretty confident I had enough identification on me and was in the right department, based on what I was able to ascertain from Internet research, but what can you do. Looking forward to getting or not getting the document that was requested and then standing another 3 hours in line.
Sounds good, will hit you up once everything is dealt with.

@ binkbinkbink

I had TMGOP2 (The Mental Game of Poker 2) on me and some podcasts so wasn't too bad. The main problem was the standing part. Standing in one place for a long period of time isn't easy on my lower back. When I arrived, I drew number 158 and they were on number 32, so I guess the best thing is to go grab some coffee for about 1 hour and then come back and see where the numbers are at. Just be careful not to miss your number and allow enough time to compensate for irregularities. Also maybe get there as soon as they open to minimize waiting times.

We should def catch a movie if I am still here when you arrive then.

Yea meeting D33P was fun. He has been a great help and is even nicer in person than on the boards.

It's funny that you should mention that cafe. I met a poker player from Entrecampos with his gf today and he was telling me how that's a super popular cafe that I should visit.

Yeah I was addicted to the Nata there.Belem is really nice in general.its worth a couple of hours for sure.yeah we can def meet up if your still about.(sly should pay for lunch coz he just had a big score,pick a nice place )

Doesnt really have to be algarve,open for any place where young people are,beaches,bars,surf, just to have a nice relaxing summer and to grind a bit

I think Algarve has some of the warmest waters in Portugal, so that's a consideration. It might also be the place with the best opportunities when away from the beach relative to other beach locations.
Other good beach locations are potentially Oeiras and Ericeira. Ericeira is really good for surfing. I've been to Oeiras myself and it's a nice quite area with a beach and not too far from Lisbon or Cascais, so you can easily just hop on the train if you want to go sightseeing or whatever.
I am really no expert on these areas though. Couldn't tell you anymore than this without googling information.

algarve if its more parting ericiera for surf an id say cascais or oeiras for a mix as its close to lisbon and on the coast...portuguese guys here will know but i think it all depends on your priorities..

Went to Camara Municipal de Lisboa today to request the certificado de residente UE as requested by the Loja de Cidadao. Turns out to request that paper, you need a confirmation of residence in Portugal. This can be a proof of employment, but I think you can also get confirmation from a hotel that you are staying at. I'm not 100% sure if that works if you are staying at your hotel for only a short period of time though.

I think it is clearly best to try to get a NIF asap when you arrive in Lisbon. Also best to ask your embassy how to do that, because speaking to government employees is really difficult if you don't speak Portuguese. I think it is due to the age group of most of these government officials that few speak English or are willing to speak English.
In any case I was fortunate enough to speak to somebody today that spoke English and she explained to me what I needed to do (Fwiw, I don't think it is too much to ask that somebody at a desk for European immigration can speak English. Hope that doesn't sound arrogant.). I mean the deal is this, if you are an European citizen, you can not be denied the right to live in Portugal, but if you wish to stay for more than 3 months, you should technically be registered as an EU citizen and have proof of residence. Once you are registered you can apply for a NIF. Once you have the NIF you have the same legal contractual rights as a Portuguese citizen, which you require to obtain Internet etc.

Since I'm trying to do everything in like a 48 hour time window, I have to sign a renting contract without a NIF, which my current landlord to be is willing to do and then go after the certificate of registration that way.
I was trying to avoid this, as a friend's girlfriend who is Portuguese told me that that might lead to some legal issues down the line. I think the risk is acceptable at this point though and so I am doing it the way my landlord suggested.

On a lighter note, I went to a Kizomba workshop yesterday with a friend from Lisbon and his aforementioned girlfriend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizomba
I've never heard of this before, even though it is apparently popular in the UK. Essentially it's like some of the Latin-American dances, but based in the Portuguese speaking African colonies (Angola etc.). I got totally owned, because he said it was a workshop for beginners, but it wasn't... Anyway was a great experience. Here is a video of the instructor who held the workshop and also a demonstration of what it might look like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVtamnvQTU

And I will stop here before this post turns into a blog post, lol (check out my blog at http://uptodan.wordpress.com). Just thought I would share my experiences with the bureaucracy as I believe it has relevance to people in this thread.