How would you guys play this hand that I had on the first day of the WSOP? I had 17k in chips late in the third level, blinds 150-300. Next level is 150-300 with 25 ante. My table is challenging, with an aggressive kid sitngoer, Antonio Esfandiari and Layne Flack stacked on my left.

I picked up QdQh in the cutoff, and raised to 900. Antonio called in the bb in such a way that i was sure he wasn't slowplaying anything. He had a 60k stack -- he was running hot and dominating the table. The flop came Tc8c6d, and he lead out $1200. I've played with Antonio for years, and i know he's capable of donking into the raiser with the nuts. In fact he's already done it once this tournament.

What to do?

Raise to see where you're at, fold to a shove (on flop or turn) because he obv has you beat at that point.

call and see what happens...

pretty easy call

Either raise/call or call, I think Antonio is too good to raise/call so I just call. Against someone like Gus I like raise/call.

i would prob just flat

I like a flat call


why would you raise here and fold to a shove? if im raising im calling a shove, but that would be stupid here considering the best play is call and play the turn

Sorry attempt at a joke... Anyway yeah this is a pretty easy flat call in position IMO, like Gobbo said vs. some villains I'd be willing to get it in but probably not in this spot (way more likely vs. aggrotards and internet players obv).

What is so bad about raising and folding to shove?
he is still 4x times the big blind
plus playing post flop with very good and aggressive player with 60k can be dangerous even with postion.

because then antonio can re shove tons of hands that have like 50% equity vs QQ here and get us to fold.

he can flat call, and then there is a gross % of the deck that can come on the turn and kill our hand (or, let antonio bluff us!)

edit: which of course can happen when we flat call him too, but then we lose way less $

it does not let antonio fire a second barrel (his range to lead into you on this flop is pretty wide imo)

I wouldn't want to stack off here with QQ (...but I had pocket QUEENS) so I'd probably just call down, unless he got all jammy on me or the board goes to hell.

- Bitterness is joy with a bad attitude

Can those of you who prefer flat call please elaborate on your reasoning for me? I find several reasons why flatting may not be optimal:

1) It gives a free card to hands that will fold to a raise.
2) I have approximately 60% equity against his donk/shove range (hands that have me beat, all combo draws, and the good T's).
3) A huge part of the deck is a scare card on this flop, which means that against a strong player like antonio, i will be folding incorrectly a lot on the turn.
4) When I do get a non-scare card turn, i will still be busting most of the time against the made hands that beat me.

I strongly agree that raise/folding is the least preferable play.

If you've played with Antonio for years, then why you askin us? : )

I'd call and if the turn blanks raise or bet if he checks. If draws or an overcard come in and he keeps firing I make a super-weak fold, if he checks I check behind and try to get to showdown and maybe induce a bluff.

If you're really worried about being outplayed postflop why not consider being a bit sneaky and limping in?

- Bitterness is joy with a bad attitude

i think there is more of a chance you losing more money by check calling the turn and river then raise fold with all kinds of draw out there. I would raise and call shove. since we know he has equity and can be shoving alot of hands.

1. so? ISNT IT SKLANSKY THAT SAID IN NO LIMIT HOLDEM YOU MUST SOMETIMES SACRAFICE GIVING FREE CARDS IN ORDER TO CONTROL THE SIZE OF THE POT AND INDUCE YOUR OPPONENT INTO MAKING MISTAKES?

2. lol where do you come up with this

3. i think when the club comes on the turn and he fires again he has it most of the time. even if he doesn't, its not a big mistake in NLHE to fold what might be the best hand in a small pot. things like pot control, inducing mistakes, and not allowing your opponents to play perfectly against you is more important.

4. lol, exactly right. say the turn comes something pretty like the 2

antonio fires again, you shove, and he calls with something that has you beat. ok, you lose

but wouldn't that have happened anyway raise calling the flop?

yes, however, if he didn't have you beat you get all the value from him firing again on the turn which he probably does when you make a weak looking call on the flop

and man raise calling is just so gross if you are going to raise call you are getting in like however many bb's that is i forgot like 40-50 either slightly ahead or way way behind, isnt that, uh, terrible?

Pokerstove. If the problem interests you, give it a go yourself.

I understand the value of inducing bluffs or additional bets with worse. Do you guys really think that outweighs the value you're giving him by folding to every scare card on the turn? Against an aggro player like Antonio, I'm skeptical.