Hola, idk if there's a name for this but I'm interested what type of hands you're all playing back with. The situation is villain calling our pfr from sb or bb with ~20 bb's or so. On the flop villain leads out close to pot or 1/3-1/4 his stack.

I know that there are a lot of different flop possibilities and this is a very general question, but what do we need to normally raise? Do we consider this a strong or weaker play?

Here's a good example: Blinds 400/800 ante 80
Hero's stack: 27500
BB's stack: 14800

Hero's dealt (7 7) raise 1000 to 1800
CO folds
Button folds
SB folds
BB calls 1000
Flop: 6 10 9
BB bets 3600
Hero ?

can anyone take a stab at this? I've been out of poker for a couple years after my government ruined online poker for me. Starting to play a lot more and seeing this type of bet more than I'm used to

Hola.

check what equity do you need to stack off profitably, assign him a range and see if you have enough equity.

Since there`s no description at all I assigned him some random range and think we have to fold.

Board: Ts 9s 6h

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 68.033% 67.71% 00.33% 69040 333.00 { AcAd, AcAh, 8c8d, 8c8h, 8c8s, 66, 5c5d, 5c5h, 5c5s, AsQs, AsJs, ATs, KsQs, KsJs, KTs, Ks8s, QsJs, QTs, Qs8s, Js8s, T8s+, 98s, 8s6s, 7s5s, 6s5s, 5s4s, ATo, KdQc, KhQc, KhQd, KsQc, KsQd, KsQh, KdJc, KhJc, KhJd, KsJc, KsJd, KsJh, KTo, QTo, T8o+, 98o }
Hand 1: 31.967% 31.64% 00.33% 32264 333.00 { 7d7s }

Generally there are all kind of donkeys, so such spots would always be villain dependent.

thanks. That's one hell of a range. I think AA should be ruled out. Hands like A8 A7 and some more 6's should be added. Do you assume there's no fold equity here either? Do you see people leading out with blanks ever?


Edit: This hand was from Bovada where players are anonymous. No previous hands with bb

Is this a full table? Where are you raising from? What is your raising range from whatever position you are in? Are we assuming this is your first hand at the table with villain? Need more info

Like I said this is bovada where players are anonymous. I tend to have a very wide opening range and raised from middle position. I know theres a lot of information we need for a decision but this is anonymous and as random as it gets. He may notice that I raise a lot, and he could have just joined the table.


So... no previous history on villain

Alright well assuming this is a full table and that this is villain's first hand at the table, I think this is a fold. You have plenty of hands in your range that you continue with, so you don't need to worry about being exploitable(at least any set, 78, any overpair, any 10, any spade draw, QJ). It would even be better to shove a hand like KJ here than 77 since you'd have more equity against his calling range. If you notice villain doing this frequently you can shove wider for value, but I think you need to give him credit here.

I agree with ontilt24/7 but just wanted to add a few points.

1. Unless you think he's FOLDING AA there, you can't rule it out...you can weight it way less, but you have to include all hands that the player WOULD NOT FOLD in any range.

2. Without evidence that the player is bad enough to put in 1/4 to 1/3 of stack (per your general question as well as the example), you have to assume you have no fold equity. "Without evidence"--meaning, that you have seen the player put in that big a percentage of his stack postflop and then folded. (Ideally, leading out, but you could probably just have it be any postflop situation where he bets first.) You MIGHT have fold equity, just like you MIGHT be ahead of his range, but it's more profitable to assume you don't/aren't until you have evidence that he frequently folds after putting in that much; and that he actually HAS a wider range.

3. Yes, of course people can lead there with blanks...It's just not profitable to try to figure out whether or not he is without specific evidence. Evidence is seeing him lead in those spots with too high a frequency, or seeing him show down a blank--ideally 3 times (so you know it wasn't just a random impulse or mistake, and all the rest of the time, he has it), but you could maybe come to that conclusion from one shown down blank. However, just because he leads with a blank SOMETIMES doesn't mean he leads with a blank ALL the time, so again, you're more likely to be profitable by putting him on a reasonable range and folding when you don't beat that range, until there is really COMPELLING evidence to widen your own range in response.

The whole frame of thought for a situation like this is not, "Am I ahead at the moment," but, "Am I ahead of his RANGE?" So you will end up folding the best hand...but over time, it's still more profitable to give him credit (or not) based on his range in a situation where you believe you have no fold equity.

Just fold

+1

I think there's a danger to over thinking this one - why's he not shoving pre (with a good reshove stack size)? Why's he donking? Why's he pot? Do we think he's pot committed? Blah Blah Blah.

The reality is we're very likely behind, the remaining 7s and 8s may not be clean outs for us, and we're probably playing for stacks

Fold, make a note, and move on.

Depends so much on opponent. Against fish I'd normally just go all in, against good players I'd just fold or maybe peel one.