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ranges for raising the limpers in late position in high stakes MTT ranges for raising the limpers in late position in high stakes MTT

10-11-2009 , 09:03 PM
Guys,

I know this is dependent on a lot of factors but what hand ranges do you use for:

a) Raising one or more limpers when we're on the button
b) Raising one or more limpers when we're in the cutoff
c) Raising one or more limpers when we're in the blinds

Does deeper money = tighter?
Do antes = looser?
Does shallow money = do it with high cards?

And if say we get one customer, and it's checked to us in the button or cutoff, do we c-bet even flops that have two broadways say K J x when we miss?
10-14-2009 , 11:40 AM
This is a good question - bumping up...

Would be interested to hear what some of the experianced players have to say on this.
10-14-2009 , 06:05 PM
I mean it's completely situational for us to just give you some specific range. It's based on so many things like the players tendencies who limped, their stack sizes, the stack sizes and tendencies of the players in the blinds, your image, etc. Nobody can give you good enough advice on such a huge range of things. If you want help you should post specific situations with reads of opponents and etc.
10-14-2009 , 06:24 PM
What RaineTech said. Poker is all situational and these questions will have completely different answers depending on table dynamics. A lot depends on the limp frequency of our opponents and how we've seen them react to isolation raises previously. Do you use a HUD by chance? You can make much more accurate decisions based on their tendencies.

If you're referring to live poker, which is seems you play a good amount of, it's completely situational and read-dependent. How have the limpers been playing so far? What's your image? How do you think your opponents perceive you? Have you shown down any monsters/rags after raising pre? How comfortable are your opponents when they are out of position? Do they tend to shut down postflop and play fit-or-fold?

If effective stacks are deep enough and your confident playing postflop in position and knowing how to proceed on all types of board textures, then try it a few times with various holdings and see how your opponents react. Do this early, then maybe tighten up for a bit and try again when antes kick in now that you have a better idea of how they react.

I have no idea if that helped or answered your question, I kind of rambled ;]
10-14-2009 , 06:38 PM
Why is this thread even in this forum?
10-14-2009 , 06:46 PM
Who are you, the forum police? Seemed like a legit question to me.
10-14-2009 , 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerChamp
a) Raising one or more limpers when we're on the button or Cut Off

c) Raising one or more limpers when we're in the blinds

1. Does deeper money = tighter?
2. Do antes = looser?
3. Does shallow money = do it with high cards?
Figured I would treat BTN and CO as basically the same since we have a limper and we are talking about raising from late position. The blinds are obv an entirely different situation. This thread should be moved to regular MTT btw.

This question is entirely dependent on table dynamics, but in general i would say:

a)
1. can raise KQ+, KJs+, 77+ over most limpers
2. same
3. same

b)
1. can raise AQ+, AJs+, TT+ over most limpers
2. same
3. same

Ofc this is entirely situational. Do like CoachZ said - play a lot and experiment. Vs some opponents I'll raise much wider in these spots.
10-15-2009 , 01:23 AM
blue chip - that's a tight range.

I'm thinking more of- Kx suited, Ace-rag, 43s+,76o+, Axs, any two cards eight or better, 22's+.

Especially on the button can't we open with almost any two as we are guaranteed position post flop (I'm assuming spots where there are enough chips that villains can't shove or check-raise us on the flop without it being a huge overbet).
10-15-2009 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerChamp
blue chip - that's a tight range.
Haha, very true. Disregard my ranges in the above post - way too tight. Sometimes when I'm typing out ranges I default to a tighter range. That range you mention though is a bit loose for the blinds, althogh I did just do one of CoachZ's test v. a few limpers with a couple different hands in the BB with. 9Ts with 2 limpers (UTG+1 was first, SB was last), raised it up to 5.5x and everyone folded. Same situation with AQ - everyone folded. I think raises from the blinds look so strong that ppl will fold out large hands like KQ. I've used this positional strength phenomenon from UTG to exploit weak tables with a fair amount of success.
10-15-2009 , 02:16 PM
This is super read-dependent and situation-dependent. You can make this play with almost anything. Also, it isn't a big error to limp behind with AQ or TT or whatever sometimes. You can occasionally limp behind with a big hand and hope for a raise and callers.

I would say it would be standard to raise 99+, AQ+, in that I would almost always raise these. I would rarely raise with 22-77 (prefering to limp behind), but I tend to make loose raises with suited connectors/gappers, other halfway decent suited cards, and weak high cards.

Your decision to raise, limp behind or fold with marginal hands should more be based on the situation, reads, and your style, rather than on the value of the hand. You really can't look at this like a pushbotting situation and be looking for a formula.

Some of the pushbotting and restealing range questions are interesting, but even then it is read-dependent, and there are often other options than open pushing or reraising allin.

You want to have some ideas about ranges and such, but you are not going to be real successful playing MTTs according to rules like with blackjack.
10-15-2009 , 03:25 PM
everything pretty
10-15-2009 , 09:26 PM
There is not going to be a set of standards for raising with limpers. Everything is dependent on if you have enough chips to bully, how loose they call, how nitty they are. If you have Q,J on the button with a limper who folds to a raise everytime and tight blinds then pop it up. The best thing to do is start with your standard raising hands and begin raising a little looser sometimes to get a feel for it. Go with what you feel the right play is at the time, if you think you 9,10 suited is going to win the pot if you raise it before the flop then do just that. I like to at least have a hand that I am familiar with playing. I rarely do this with a hand like 9,2 or J,5 but you get the logic behind it.

On a side note when a limper comes into the pot I would usually say your raising standards in most cases need to be a little tighter. Good example is with no limpers I almost always come into the pot for a raise with A,J suited with a few limpers I like to call with this hand.
10-16-2009 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Z
Who are you, the forum police? Seemed like a legit question to me.
lol

OP. Really player dependant and table dynamics.

      
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