Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
QQ in 250K QQ in 250K

10-15-2009 , 09:51 PM
I am new to two plus two but have read the forums for a long time. Just wondering what line you take on the turn?

No software running just know that villian has been very active, and is a losing player with an ABI $16.

Any and all comments are appreciated. Pre, Flop, turn? Didn't want to post results yet.

Poker Stars $300+$20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t2970 M = 99
BTN: t2930 M = 97.67
SB: t2980 M = 99.33
BB: t2940 M = 98
UTG: t2720 M = 90.67
UTG+1: t2790 M = 93
UTG+2: t4580 M = 152.67
Hero (MP1): t3260 M = 108.67
MP2: t1830 M = 61

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is MP1 with Q Q
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, UTG+2 raises to t60, Hero raises to t180, 5 folds, UTG+1 calls t160, UTG+2 calls t120

Flop: (t570) 5 4 7 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets t220, Hero raises to t920, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls t700

Turn: (t2410) 4 (2 players)
UTG+2 checks
Hero: ??
10-15-2009 , 10:01 PM
i think 3 bettin pre here is fine
not crazy about ur sizing - i would make it larger pre
on the flop vs this opponent i would probably raise his bet and be happy getting it in
as played once he checks turn i would jam for value - pot is about 2400 and u have 2100 left
10-16-2009 , 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Gordon
i think 3 bettin pre here is fine
not crazy about ur sizing - i would make it larger pre
on the flop vs this opponent i would probably raise his bet and be happy getting it in
as played once he checks turn i would jam for value - pot is about 2400 and u have 2100 left
+1 what I was thinking
10-16-2009 , 06:21 AM
After the action preflop, with villain raising a limper and then calling your 3bet his range should be mainly medium PPs and decent aces.

The donk bet on the flop could mean a lot of thinks depending on the opponent (the naked ace of spades, an overpair, a set, etc.) but you are still ahead of his range so I like the raise, both for value and to charge him if he is drawing.

On the turn you should jam for value because if he has an overpair or a draw he might call now but give up on the river. Note that you are almost always ahead now, because a set or the non nut flush would shove after your flop raise.
10-16-2009 , 08:53 AM
160bb deep why are you only making it 9bb to go? Pump that baby up to 220-300 (if he'll call 300 with crap make it 300, if he's decent make it 220).

As played jam turn. Checking back is annoying cause he might bluffshove the river with missed spades or get there with a lot of hands, now he might still call worse and you really need to take this pot down right here.
10-16-2009 , 09:31 AM
raising flop is absolutely ridiculous, just call the flop, reevaluate turn
10-16-2009 , 10:13 AM
what kind of hand is villian flatting on this flop. i dont see him doing this with a non made hand. he knows your gonna fire the turn if he just calls so what hand can he have here.
10-16-2009 , 10:20 AM
His half pot bet on flop can mean he has made the flush and is inducing some reraise or he had the flushdraw and i trying to get there cheaply.

OR

he is a complete rtard and is blockbetting with a pair of 88-jj
10-16-2009 , 10:47 AM
3bet bigger pre.
Your 3bet on the flop makes no sense,you are inflating a pot you don´t know where you are at ,and you get action from hands you are way behind or drawing nearly dead.

As played,once he checks to you,( + the best card on the deck for you hit tha board )I´d jam due to odds but I would not be surprised if Hero shows a full house.
10-16-2009 , 11:19 AM
PF:i'd 3bet to 240 PFwith his donk ebt...
FLOPi d say middle pair or ace and over... the call would made sense there... rule out the sets because with that flop if he doesnt push all in there to protect from flush draw or extract value from your ovepair he is a moron...
TURN: easy shove... i think most of the time you re ahead given how the hand was plyed he either has amid pair or if after the flush draw ( if he is got kk or better and has not pushed you yet... i d say he sucks)... so PUSH there.
10-16-2009 , 11:48 AM
1) raise more pre
2) call flop
3) bet turn
10-16-2009 , 12:35 PM
to all the people saying that raising the flop is ridiculous, makes no sense, etc., think about it:

1) we are rarely way behind
2) even if we are way behind the pot is already so big that we will end up loosing most of our stack anyway because we will have to call a turn bet basically 100% of the times and a river bet most of the times
3) if instead we are ahead by checking the flop we are missing a lot of value from the draws, that represent a high percentage of his range (and we risk to be outdrawn)

so pls explain why raising the flop is so terrible
10-17-2009 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkTime4PlanB
raising flop is absolutely ridiculous, just call the flop, reevaluate turn
this. there is no reason to be raising the flop here, preflop sizing should be a little larger IMO but that is a much smaller mistake in comparison to your flop raise. Keep the pot small, you are way too deep to reraise/get it in on this flop with these stacks.
10-17-2009 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo80
to all the people saying that raising the flop is ridiculous, makes no sense, etc., think about it:

1) we are rarely way behind
2) even if we are way behind the pot is already so big that we will end up loosing most of our stack anyway because we will have to call a turn bet basically 100% of the times and a river bet most of the times
3) if instead we are ahead by checking the flop we are missing a lot of value from the draws, that represent a high percentage of his range (and we risk to be outdrawn)

so pls explain why raising the flop is so terrible
this is not true, if we flat the flop, (assuming UTG+1 folds out) the pot will be ~1000 and we will still have 2860 behind, we are in no way pot committed on the flop

the turn will be a different story, if he bets big again on the turn we have to evaluate his betsize, timing, and his/our pot committment at that point, hence the saying "call and re-eval turn"

also, if he is "really active" and "a losing player" and he leads on the turn, its better to shove him in at that point (as long as turn is a non spade) as there is more in the pot to win on a turn shove, and you can get him off a naked A and stuff like that which he might decide to go with on the flop with 2 cards left rather than only one

plus all the pot control arguments, its just generally better to flat re-eval on this sort of flop with these stacks

also stop worrying so much about getting value from draws, get your value from other ppls mistakes IMO

wow that was alot to say hope something in there makes sense

Last edited by jon_midas; 10-17-2009 at 10:53 AM.
10-17-2009 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_midas
this is not true, if we flat the flop, (assuming UTG+1 folds out) the pot will be ~1000 and we will still have 2860 behind, we are in no way pot committed on the flop

the turn will be a different story, if he bets big again on the turn we have to evaluate his betsize, timing, and his/our pot committment at that point, hence the saying "call and re-eval turn"

also, if he is "really active" and "a losing player" and he leads on the turn, its better to shove him in at that point (as long as turn is a non spade) as there is more in the pot to win on a turn shove, and you can get him off a naked A and stuff like that which he might decide to go with on the flop with 2 cards left rather than only one

plus all the pot control arguments, its just generally better to flat re-eval on this sort of flop with these stacks

also stop worrying so much about getting value from draws, get your value from other ppls mistakes IMO

wow that was alot to say hope something in there makes sense
never said we were pot committed on the flop, just said that if we are indeed way behind (and pls note that this is rarely the case) it will be anyway pretty easy for him to get around 2/3 of our stack on many combinations of turn and river cards.

If instead we are ahead now I don't see why we shouldn't try to get more money in the pot.

You talk about getting value from other people mistakes, well then give him the opportunity to make a mistake here by calling your raise without the right odds instead of giving him the possibility to see a free turn card and then take the right decision of laying down his unimproved drawing hand
10-17-2009 , 06:41 PM
OP says: "No software running just know that villian has been very active, and is a losing player with an ABI $16."

Against a guy like this, why are we looking to keep the pot small on that flop? Seems like a std. spot for a raise, imo...
10-18-2009 , 09:47 AM
Def bigger raise pre...Also, the way the hand got played out I agree with Dana that shovin the turn for value is good play
Calling the flop is def an option but against a calling station (thats what comes to mind when you say a losing, active player :-) ) there is value in raising and can def get called by hands that have 2 outs....
10-19-2009 , 03:04 AM
Thanks for all the advice. I ended up shoving on the turn and his red 68 held up.

      
m