Pretty sure both villain and hero had choices....results are given but I have faith u guys can ignore them.

thoughts on both villain and heros play? I found it pretty bordrline at all stages of the hand for both players. Both players have good reads on each other having played 4723618423 hands over the years and talked poker a decent amount. BBs image is pretty standard anfd his perception of us is knknown, if that matters.

***** Hand History for Game 33687618937 ***** (Poker Stars)
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, October 05, 10:23:58 ET 2009
Table 200030941 6 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: Beldar C. ( $8796.00 USD )
Seat 2: Waters81 ( $4425.00 USD )
Seat 3: anfo500 ( $13361.00 USD )
Seat 4: tony1967 ( $21181.00 USD )
Seat 5: sheets ( $15754.00 USD )
Seat 6: MSUcougar ( $5865.00 USD )
Seat 7: BMH v.2.37 ( $11397.00 USD )
Seat 8: melikman ( $7293.00 USD )
Seat 9: Joey Capp ( $11863.00 USD )
Beldar C. posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
Waters81 posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
anfo500 posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
tony1967 posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
sheets posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
MSUcougar posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
BMH v.2.37 posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
melikman posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
Joey Capp posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
sheets posts small blind [$200.00 USD].
MSUcougar posts big blind [$400.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to BMH v.2.37 [ 8d 8s ]
BMH v.2.37 raises [$1000.00 USD]
melikman folds
Joey Capp folds
Beldar C. folds
Waters81 folds
anfo500 folds
tony1967 folds
sheets raises [$3000.00 USD]
MSUcougar folds
BMH v.2.37 raises [$10347.00 USD]
sheets calls [$8147.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2s, Jh, As ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
sheets shows [9c, 9s ]
BMH v.2.37 shows [8d, 8s ]
sheets wins $23544.00 USD from main pot

I can't see getting the eights in versus the reraise. The nines is a closer spot, but I don't have any reads on the guys game.

I would say the 99 is effectively the same as 22 in this spot (with slightly more equity) versus most players - because with these stacks most regs would fold 88 to you. In general I would probably flat preflop but he had 88 and actually got it in with you so pretty genius.

getting 88 in pre here seems horrible

i certainly leveled myself this hand i think and convinced myself that sheets' range here was larger than normal due to talking to him the previous day. In retrospect i think it probably made his decision more +ev than normal and mine equally as stupid.

that and just seeing joey capp's name tilts me.

This. I can't comment on whether or not it was a good play against villain with the info you provided, but if he was, say... lilholdem, I am 3 bet inducing with as low as 77... usually with slightly larger effective stacks, but there are definitley chips to be gained with this stack, as well.. There are some 2p2ers I do this against as well... but without any assumptions about villains 4 betting tendencies, or how he views your 3 betting range with this stack, I dont know how we can answer one way or the other with any real validity.

Like apestyles said, most regs are going to be folding 88 here because most regs are terrified of 3b/folding with 25bbs effective. I mean... how much air do you really have in your range here, sheets?

As for the eights, we are dealing with the same relevant information. There are some regs that I personally know to not be afraid of 3 betting light with 25bb stacks, and against them I will shove. I don't know enough about your game or your history with villain, but I surely doubt I would be shipping 88 over your 3 bet here from your reputation.

Either way, I don't see how you have a choice once you have 3 bet the nines. If you do, it is because you had a faulty plan and never should have 3 bet in the first place.

Edit: I just noticed that OR was UTG. I think you have pretty much every option available to you... meaning, dependent on OR ep tendencies... Flat/Shove/3 ball-Induce/Fold (I know one winning player, at least, who does this semi regularly)

One day 25 BB full-ring NLHE will be solved and I think it's fairly close whether each player's play of this hand will be part of a Nash equilibrium. Both the 3bet/call and the shove are very thin but barely on the side of profitability IMO.

Is there a line that is more than barely on the profitable side for sheets?

Honestly, how phucking hard is it to do this?

Poker Stars No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200.00/t400.00 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: t8796.00 M = 14.66
MP2: t4425.00 M = 7.38
CO: t13361.00 M = 22.27
BTN: t21181.00 M = 35.30
SB: t15754.00 M = 26.26
BB: t5865.00 M = 9.78
Hero (UTG): t11397.00 M = 19.00
UTG+1: t7293.00 M = 12.15
UTG+2: t11863.00 M = 19.77

Pre Flop: (t600) Hero is UTG with 8 8
Hero raises to t1000, 6 folds, SB raises to t3200, 1 fold, Hero raises to t11347, SB calls t8147

Flop: (t23094) 2 J A (2 players)

Turn: (t23094) 4 (2 players)

River: (t23094) Q (2 players)

Not folding obv. I don't think calling is, either. OOP with a low SPR and not even closing the action, 99 isn't going to play well in that spot. Also I think there are so few hands that you would even consider calling with here that an equilibrium will end up having zero calls. But I'm totally making all this up, just my best guess.

Open is marginal but ok, 9s is a close fold and the shove is terribad.

man I hate your 3bet size if you're trying to induce make it 2700 or something smaller that looks like FE straight 3xing here oop just screams something thats not aa/kk but it's not ever folding so getting it in with 88 is just terrible. If you raised less reasoning would be he's never folding 10s+ or ak/aqs so you're trying to induce the biggest % of spazzes since every spaz is +ev for you to get it in vs. So make it smaller he's never flatting pre he's 4betting or folding even if you make it as small as 2475. Unless you know something about him like he opens 50% of hands utg there so therefore he has to 4bet hands like 88 because you're 3betting so often which I doubt was the case.

Also, you're willing to get 99 in here vs him in sb but what about co? what's the position on the table you're not willing to 3bet/call with your hand vs him. I think HJ-button you should flat the raise induce squeezes from behind as well as play IP while anywhere sooner I think folds correct and I know you specifically have folded 10s and even jj in similar spots from Earlier position

88 played this bad. ure 3 bet range of a utg opener will have 88s dommed. 99 is close, but i guess u gotta gamble at some pt. i dont think u shud be gettin it in here and being a 4-1 fav, but hey what do i know

Thank you, such a good post.

Is this completely villain dependent, or close to ranges vs competent players?

I agree with pretty much all of this.

Am I bad if I flat stuff in BB here? Todd Terry said so, so I think I must be bad

He's in the SB. There are probably a few hands you could flat in the BB here and maybe eek out a profit, but it's such a narrow range that I don't think it's advisable against a good opponent. If there are any such hands, 99 would probably be one of them. IMO.

And I didn't say it was bad, I opined that it's probably not GTO, which doesn't matter against plenty of people.

ty sir