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Live 0 - Can we fold top set? Live 0 - Can we fold top set?

01-04-2013 , 08:24 AM
first level of a $550 buyin tournament at my local casino with ~150 runners. Start stack 10k and 30 min blinds currently at 25/50

This is the 4th or 5th hand of the tournament and everyone has approximately the start stack.

VILLAIN: Mid 30s male, never seen him before. He has played one hand where he limped in lateish position, called a raise then check/folded the flop. I dont remember exact bet sizings or flop texture.

HERO: Young kid who is a reg at the casino, generally plays most tournys and 1/2 and 3/3 cash games.

REST OF THE TABLE: 3 cash regs who generally play 10/20 NLH and 25/50 PLO

THE HAND: So i am dealt AcAd in the bb. There are 5 limpers including villain who limps from the HJ. I raise to 375 in the BB (is this ok sizing? more/less?) and villain instantly flats and the rest fold.

Flop: Ah3c5c - Pot is 900ish

I lead for 800 and villain instantly flats without any thought or consideration. Should i have sized bigger/smaller? c/r flop?

Turn: Kc - Pot is 2.5k

Hero? In the hand i decided to check and villian instantly pots it and i flatted with top set and the NFD. Any arguments for folding/raising?

When i flat here i figure that i am getting the right odds to call if i am beat and also i may have the best hand where raising will probably fold most other worse hands.

River Qd - Pot is 7.5k

Hero? In game i checked and villain instantly bets 5k. Hero?

I cant really see a hand i beat here that plays the hand this way. I figure he would have probably raised the flop with a set of 3s or 5s and given pre/flop action it unlikely he has KK or QQ and i also have blockers to a lot of 2p combos. Is it reasonable to put him on a range of connected clubs like QcJc/Jc10c etc?

Thoughts on all streets appreciated
01-04-2013 , 08:31 AM
how does he look like
01-04-2013 , 08:39 AM
mid 30s white guy, casually dressed
01-04-2013 , 09:32 AM
More pre, more on the flop, I want to fold but I'm discouraged by the fact he could have 555/333.
01-04-2013 , 09:42 AM
I agree it looks like Q/J J/10 clubs given the limited read, the earlier hand was also likely bricked sc or Ax ss. Broadway sc were implied priced to call after the parade of limpers, and your BB raise lets him play the hand in position with easy decisions; he either smashes the flop or gets away for 6bb in the first lap where everybody is deep. He may even put you on a steal given your "young kid" look.

Maybe less preflop, but AA does not want to go to flop into 5 limpers OOP. (Looking forward to comments on that )

I like the turn, there is enough chance he stacks off if you hit the river. Is a blocker bet better? Not if he raises to blow you off the draw. B/F is horrible there, you get away for one PSB as played.

He hit yatzee, good fold, and he is never folding the river in fear of the nut flush as played. Think his bet was for max value on the river? Don't see what he can be bluffing with, I suppose he could be getting stubborn/silly with an unlikely two pair given your blockers. If forced to pick, I would say specifically J/10 clubs.

What area of country are you? Wondering if that may affect the read. Does he fit a certain player profile for your area?
01-04-2013 , 09:55 AM
...I'm discouraged by the fact he could have 555/333. <

Doesn't villain raise the flop with the two clubs on board given the hero near PSB lead?
01-04-2013 , 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolusernames
More pre, more on the flop, I want to fold but I'm discouraged by the fact he could have 555/333.
really?

into the hand:i think we cant fold with the blocker we have. he can bet other sets for value too... i know its hard for him to be bluffing in this hand but still.. its a live tourney where ppl do lot of random and horrible things
01-04-2013 , 10:35 AM
i know its hard for him to be bluffing in this hand but still.. its a live tourney where ppl do lot of random and horrible things<

I agree with the potential for random horribleness, but i keep coming back to and can't get away from villain raising flop with a set to try and GII or further define hero hand. Speaking of potential, I may have my head up my ass. How often is villain smoothing a set here particularly when the 3/5 are the clubs?
01-04-2013 , 11:38 AM
Villain range: AX hh or hx, J10xx, suited connector and one gapper clubs 4-Q, 33,55, weird air. What are we beating? Particularly as played?

Anybody like 1/3ish lead on river as a blocker into weaker flushes we are behind and sets/random 2p hands we beat?
01-04-2013 , 03:44 PM
i think that on the turn if i bet and get raised/shoved i am probably priced in to call given i have ~17 outs but if he already has me beat then i can still get him to pay me off if i check/call and hit the river.

does anyone ever feel the need to balance here? i mean i generally dont make raises that big pre or make PSBs post flop.

if we do make a blocker bet on the flop/turn are we folding to a raise?
does he really bet other sets for value like this? ie. insta pot sized bets
01-04-2013 , 04:29 PM
Bet 1.4k on turn top set nut fd wtf re-evaluate river
01-04-2013 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoLuMaD
Bet 1.4k on turn top set nut fd wtf re-evaluate river
That ... If he raises me, I am shipping it in and winning the pot. If he actually has it and we don't improve then oh well on to the next one. I am not giving someone credit for flush every time a 3rd suit hits the turn, if you play top set this weak good players will exploit the s*** out of you.
01-04-2013 , 09:46 PM
Pre and flop fine IMO. Bet/shove turn, your hand is WAY to strong to ever slow down. The wheel and flushes beat you. I'm fine getting more money in the pot in this spot. You have both boat and flush draws IF you're actually beat. I will never do anything but try to get more money in this pot. It's a cooler it's a cooler. That's why they're called coolers.

As played, check call river. I really don't like playing this hand so passively b/c a flush card hit the turn.
01-04-2013 , 10:41 PM
I agree more pre, this is a 550 afterall and theres 5 limpers ffs. Flop is fine, if I we check turn then there's no way Im folding to this action from this random. Prolly c/shoving turn tho vs dolts like this
01-04-2013 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolusernames
More pre, more on the flop, I want to fold but I'm discouraged by the fact he could have 555/333.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherman
How often is villain smoothing a set here particularly when the 3/5 are the clubs?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/87...g-set-1281958/
01-04-2013 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup658
does anyone ever feel the need to balance here? i mean i generally dont make raises that big pre or make PSBs post flop.
given the action after your sizings I'd go with no

      
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