this is a def a call, although i dont feel as if the 4bet range that was posted in the thread in anywhere close to what he's likely to 4bet. This doesn't matter tho cuz all the money in the SM is in the top few spots, and just making it there is worth so much more than the +cEV you might find in 3b/calling here

Why would even think about doing anything other than calling here?

I would definitely agree with everyone that favors a flat, although I don't think he would be ever 4bet bluffing in this spot against you and with these stack sizes and I think he could not be flatting many hands other than pairs (maybe same hand as yours) OOP.

I don´t know of many baboons that won the Million twice,let alone, one of them along with the Warm up.Care to elaborate?

I would flat this around 90% of the time.

AQ, as part of a more balanced 3bet bluffing strategy of 3betting; 3betting not just hands we want to get it in against a 4bet, for example adding AQo to {QQ+AK} (*note, not saying this should be our 3bet range), may win us more chips, depending on postflop tendencies -- this is because hands with some equity are forced to fold, whereas they realize some equity (sometimes alot! of equity) if we call -- it is difficult to manuever postflop even with position with a perceived range that doesn't include top hands.

For example, and only speaking theoretically, versus a typical wide range of [22%] (about: {22 AT KT QJ JT T9 offsuit, A7 K9 QT J9 T8 97 86 76 65 suited}), our perceived range being in the area of, for example [8%-3%] (about: {55-JJ, KhKd, AQ, AJs, KQs}), it is difficult for us to apply pressure on most boards, so he has the advantage of being able to see the 4th (or sometimes 5th!) card for cheaper than usual. Even though we are in position, and have a "better" range, the situation is only somewhat profitable. 3betting AQo is also profitable. It's close.

Btw, with AQs I would rarely be thinking about a 3bet here (unless I wanted to 3b/call.) Actually, now that I've thought about it a bit more, I think that a 3bet is probably theoretically 100% right with AQo (turning AQ into a bluff - we are folding to a 4ball), however because of the bad postflop ability of most players, it skews the hand towards a call.

i cant imagine doing anything other than flatting here. i also cant imagine doing anything other than 3b/c here as nsb. who gets more people to tool out on him than he does? and this is vietcong.

Think Id flat but dont get how so many people are saying 3b is that bad, i mean its NSB and vietcong 7 handed...

I agree with call, but its close. I think it mainly comes down to stack sizes What stack size is good for a reshove? I'm thinking <=33BB. And then what stack size would we feel ok with a 3-bet/fold? Maybe >= 60BB?

vietcong doesn't know NSB's reputation

Ok, I think we've had enough discussion about pre-flop and the vast majority want to flat (I think Grear is right that jamming will show a profit, just not sure if I like it better or worse than flatting. I think it's better than 3-bet/??? because Vietcong is going to respond in some weird ways and I see no reason to inflate the pot pre when he's going to do a lot of not folding post).

Flop rolls off:


Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t80000/t160000 Blinds + t16000 - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

shumeilove (BTN): t2495966 M = 7.09
Stephan999 (SB): t2840960 M = 8.07
asharos (BB): t2667614 M = 7.58
GodsTeacher (UTG): t3976238 M = 11.30
vietcong01 (UTG+1): t10448550 M = 29.68
superMikeyGG (MP): t2304556 M = 6.55
Hero (CO): t6687469 M = 19.00

Pre Flop: (t352000) Hero is CO with A Q
1 fold, vietcong01 raises to t334567, 1 fold, Hero calls t334567, 3 folds

Flop: (t1021134) 9 T 6 (2 players)
vietcong01 bets t480000

Thoughts on: Fold, call, raise [sizing]. I toyed with just about everything here.

i would always just flat the flop here. look at all those backdoors! and obviously we can just win the pot on the turn a decent amount. and at least some of his two barrel cards are going to hit us, which is nice.

Calling that flop seems good to me. Based on everyones read of Vietcong ITT, it seems like everybody and their mother would be tarping with a big hand, and like half the deck improves our hand OTT where we can then use our NSB mojo to win the monies.

Can we plan some turn cards if we decide to float? Are we jamming OTT over a barrel on Jx? Xc? Do we plan to do things on any cards that don't improve us to at least an open ender or the toppest pear?

EDIT

What if he checks those cards? Are we betting and risking a check/raise or checking back and trying to improve/show down A-high? If we're checking turn, what rivers are we bluffing? V-betting? Etc.

i dont really feel like doing that. there are a lot of turn cards. id just bet most of them if checked to, and call most of the good ones if he bets again planning to bet the river (prefer this to showing down ace-high, as he's def gonna just bet a 6 on the flop to see what's up). and just fold if a bad one comes and he bets again.

Again, this is one of those spots where if you don't know how he plays postflop you're probably spewing by doing anything but folding on the flop.

If you have a read that he gives up on the turn too much or barrels way too often, then you can react by floating and stabbing if checked to or floating and jamming over safe cards.

But not having that read kinda forces you to play this hand really ABC. Playing AQ in a high-variance manner not knowing his postflop tendencies is pretty gross when it could mean ur tournament life in the sunday million.

so in the sunday million we should just never bluff in any way that isn't openraising light vs randoms?

It starts with an I and ends with an M.

Don't ask questions, just do as clayton says because it's always correct.

because everyone who says 3b is saying to fold to a 4b because they actually dont know what to do and just dont want to flat

to be fair, thats prolly a decent strategy

oh yea i guess, suppose i just thought it was obvious the only reason to 3b was to value induce because of the dynamic between someone who opens a ridiculous amount and NSBs heroness. Why is it assumed viet doesnt know nsbs rep btw? Still think flats best but theres soo many hands hes not folding we're far far ahead of that 3betting cant be that far off (Maybe i overestimate the times he 4bets stuff we crush but hes not folding it either)

the "zomg its the sunday million avoid anything resembling variance and pwn the scared money" is getting WAY overhyped in all of these threads (especially you clayton!). first of all, i think the edge a good player has deep in the million is being way overestimated. sure, most people are terrible and scared $, but the structure isn't very good and it plays pretty shallow for the most part. furthermore, you're definitely not going to have a big edge if you're afraid to put a significant amount of chips in the pot without the nuts or some stone cold read. most of your edge is going to be derived from constantly applying pressure against people, and yes that includes risking more than 2bbs sometimes.

oh and i don't think 3b smallish with the intention of probably folding to a 4 bet, depending on timing/sizing, is an unreasonable option here vs vietcong. in my limited experience with him, he is much more likely to flat the 3bet super loose than 4 bet light. saying that NSB has to stack off pre if he 3bets because he is NSB and it's vs vietcong is dumb because i highly doubt vietcong knows much about NSB and also because of my previous sentence. the stacksizes behind NSB in this particular spot make me more inclined to call though.

just fold this flop, you dont even beat much anymore and it's not like he's gonna c/f the turn a bunch (and he's probably not gonna fold enough to a raise to make that profitable)

What if that raise is to 6 million?