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LAPT 2nd chance bustout hand LAPT 2nd chance bustout hand

11-05-2008 , 03:49 PM
Some background:
Tournament is a turbo structure (30min blind levels live)
I have 20,000+ mtts logged in the last 3 years with`pos roi.
I have done nothing up to this point to spew a single chip at this point in the tournemant everyone is just picking hands and going all in.

99 Entrants , 9 places paid 31k to first.

We are down to 20 players and my table is 7 handed

blinds 600-1200 150a. Im sitting on a 14.5k stack I hate to go below 15-20bbs but the blinds have just gone up 2 hands earlier and here i am.

Im sitting UTG and look down at A5dd we are 7 handed. Whats your move, personally i would much rather be holding 56s or 67s in this spot but i was not so fortunate.

Please no generic answers. I will post my action after some responses.
11-05-2008 , 03:55 PM
I'd just fold. You're in terrible shape if called and your stack ain't that desperate yet.
11-05-2008 , 04:00 PM
I fold here. It's live so you'll definitely be able to ship it in super wide and have a ton of fold equity if it folds to you in the SB/button/CO/HJ. Hell, you might even pick up a hand in the meantime, too.

Also, are you saying you'd rather have 65s because you'd rather shove with that than A5s? Or because it's an easier fold? If it's the former, well, um, why?
11-05-2008 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfluous Man
I fold here. It's live so you'll definitely be able to ship it in super wide and have a ton of fold equity if it folds to you in the SB/button/CO/HJ. Hell, you might even pick up a hand in the meantime, too.

Also, are you saying you'd rather have 65s because you'd rather shove with that than A5s? Or because it's an easier fold? If it's the former, well, um, why?
id rather shove with 65s then a5s here. in my experience hands like that fare better vs the hands that snap u off when you are in the zone that i was (less then 15bbs) Also when i am low like this i do not open shove, i usually open for 4x´s or 1-2 my stack or something wierd like that it works vs weak players to mess with their head.

The hand played like this :
i open for 4xs utg with the intention of snap calling the other 2/3 of my stack if someone reraises. the BB rere´d with 99 and i instacalled. didnt get lucky.

Either way lesson learned its a fold next time.
11-05-2008 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coinflipper
id rather shove with 65s then a5s here. in my experience hands like that fare better vs the hands that snap u off when you are in the zone that i was (less then 15bbs)
65s fares ever so slightly better than A5s against better aces. Explain to me why you'd rather have 65s instead of A5s when you get snapped off by KK-66, KQ-KJ, etc. Especially when the fact that you hold one of the aces reduces the likelihood that a potential caller has a better ace.
11-05-2008 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coinflipper
id rather shove with 65s then a5s here. in my experience hands like that fare better vs the hands that snap u off when you are in the zone that i was (less then 15bbs) Also when i am low like this i do not open shove, i usually open for 4x´s or 1-2 my stack or something wierd like that it works vs weak players to mess with their head.

The hand played like this :
i open for 4xs utg with the intention of snap calling the other 2/3 of my stack if someone reraises. the BB rere´d with 99 and i instacalled. didnt get lucky.

Either way lesson learned its a fold next time.

fold pre
if you are rasing, why are u 4xing, shove
why are you talking about 56 if thats a fold in this spot anyways
11-06-2008 , 02:40 AM
fold
11-06-2008 , 03:19 AM
wow 20k mtts in 3year is imo unreal lol
11-06-2008 , 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueson
wow 20k mtts in 3year is imo unreal lol
and still sucking so much that raises a5s utg with <15bb and thinks 56s is better than a5s against most calling ranges. lol
11-06-2008 , 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coinflipper
I have 20,000+ mtts logged in the last 3 years
thats awesome! i almost can imagine how you must look like!
11-07-2008 , 07:40 AM
It just means that if we are called when we shove, by a better hand, both are cards are USUALLY live with 56s. Obv we'd want an overcard to the pair if they had a higher pp pf, but the point is those hands make up smaller combos than say an AJ+, 77+, QKs sort of range of range, NOTE not my range thought, just a standard one, tweak to villain's style. As in for the number of times a higher pair shows up vs the times two overs calls the 56 is less likely dominated. The main consideration is what type of player are the SB\BB. What types of hands do they defend, have they called all in's similar to this that you've seen and lastly is either of them likely to call thinking there behind but wanna "gamble" to take out you?

Last edited by killer_kill; 11-07-2008 at 07:56 AM.
11-07-2008 , 07:48 AM
Need more info imo, is it a tight table? Are there players you feel are trying to squeak into the money? Do the blinds defend much when oop?
11-07-2008 , 12:14 PM
65s plays about the same as A5s vs most calling ranges
11-07-2008 , 12:23 PM
A5s play a little betterrrrrr
11-07-2008 , 12:39 PM
Its like 1% different. Seemed like Superfluous was suggesting it was a lot more
11-07-2008 , 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordankickz
Its like 1% different. Seemed like Superfluous was suggesting it was a lot more
yeah but less combos of calling hands imo
11-07-2008 , 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordankickz
Its like 1% different. Seemed like Superfluous was suggesting it was a lot more
They're about the same if you assume a calling range of something like AJ+, 88+. I was assuming a bit of a wider calling range though, against which A5s fares 2-3% better than 65s. Also, as mlagoo mentioned, there are fewer better aces out there because you have one of the aces; so, even if they have equivalent equity against a given range, shouldn't you be more willing to shove the Ax because it is slightly less likely someone else will have one the better ace hands in said range? Or does 'stove take this card removal into effect when calculating the equity already?
11-07-2008 , 06:59 PM
Poker stove you can take the combo's of the ace you have out yourself. I'm at comp to stove it but I wanna run both the equities to see. Also fwiw OP I'd just fold tha pre since ur not in a dire chip stack yet. Ok ponder this then, A5s UTG all in with given stack OR 56s all in on btn with same starting stacks on each? As in do we take an ace high hand in bad position or a hand with better FE, less hands to go through and a better chance of being live cards? Whereas the calling range from utg is tighter but we're usually crushed when called or play for fe and have live cards. Sry if my post's drag.
11-07-2008 , 07:04 PM
Poker stove you can take the combo's of the ace you have out yourself. I'm at comp to stove it but I wanna run both the equities to see. Also fwiw OP I'd just fold tha pre since ur not in a dire chip stack yet. Ok ponder this then, A5s UTG all in with given stack OR 56s all in on btn with same starting stacks on each? As in do we take an ace high hand in bad position or a hand with better FE, less hands to go through and a better chance of being live cards? Whereas the calling range from utg is tighter but we're usually crushed when called or play for fe and have live cards. Sry if my post's dragged

      
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