Hey guys, was just railing the TCOOP Main with my friend JJProdigy for the lulz. Pretty rare we'd disagree about a turbo shove spot.
Pretty rarer in that spot I'd be suggesting a shove and JJ would be suggesting a fold!!!
So I figured I'd post it.
(In my defense I'm rusty and guessed QTo was 60% vs random hand and it was 57.83 JJ says not specifying suit) but wondering what the range is.
Also, it should be noted that ICM as a model isn't perfect/good in super short spots because it doesn't take into account how the blinds are coming up and who is all in first. Its an idea hyper turbo sng grinders know about, but isn't well documented, I'm sure george lind is the only one that knows the ACTUAL answer but he won't tell anyone.

Anyways, I forget the exact stacks and I can't find the payouts so I hope someone finds them/posts them.

But anyways The setup is this. Blinds 1mill-2mill. BB is betudontbet solid regular who actually made a couple of nitty folds, but all in all obviously is playing perfectly, (which is shoving almost every hand because of the stacks) Crazy he folded J2o utg though!

He has infinite like 60 mill in the BB
SB has 4.4mill after posting SB so 5.4mill to start hand
Button has 4.9mill ish...
CO has 2x them...Imdanuts....10.3mill

What should you be shoving in the SB.

I think its a clear fold if imdanuts was shorter obv.....but given both you and other short have no fold equity....sb is shoving ATC into imdanuts in blinds next hand...its hard for me to guesttimate the value ....and i'd need to see payouts too obv.....basically if you fold you are a favorite to get 4th maybe 3.4 position...but if you shove you are clearly in 2nd...but ICM wouldn't show how much in 2nd you are....because it doesn't take into account that imdanuts is posting blinds next 2 hands which is extremely -cEV in the given situation....you see?

Welp, my super shortstack ICM game semi rusty I guess! Oh well still the turbo king! This situation doesn't happen often.

I'm curious what the shoving range is in the SB.. I'm curious as to what the proper range is so I could plug a leak!

i'm also a lazy **** and would rather have todd terry and awice smarter people than me do the busy work...i just was born with an internal icm calculator feel in my head!

Edit: Updated with proper stacks

1. David "Betudontbet" Emmons (Mexico) $382,855.67
2. Chris "ImDaNuts" Oliver (Costa Rica) $285,310.93
3. Didak04 (Australia) $201,180.78
4. Gala_Terry (United Kingdom) $140,216.91

payouts

wow very flat....definitely think its a fold now....forgot how gayed up pokerstars payouts are....anyways....still interested on the ranges/maths.

QTo is a close fold

I'd shove QTo with antes but it's bottom of the range.

would be bottom/close to it, not folding ever

never folding here

ICM Nash calc says it's at the bottom of shoving range fwiw, assuming 250K ante:

25.6%, 55+ A2s+ A4o+ K7s+ K9o+ Q9s+ QTo+ JTs

you posted on wrong account