There was a lot of diiscussion in the televised forum about this hand. I probably push preflop. However, Hellmuth says the raiser was aggressive, so he might not be able to call a push, but might fire postflop. I also assume he was trying to induce a squeeze. IMO he played this fine.

Hellmuth's analysis:
http://www.philhellmuth.com/articles.html?id=403

Video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxZipnjhob8

not sure what all the discussion was about, seems fairly standard.

lol @ flatting pre and thinking you are a favorite on this flop...could have easily mucked the flop and not told anyone what he had

Think he has to call the flop push. I mean the SB isn't usually leading out with more than one pair. In fact he had a straight draw. The original raiser had folded. Yeh, the donk who overcalled with JTo hit 2 pair, and it isn't suprising 5-way, but you have to figure you have enough equity with AA to call.

folding on the flop here would be so incredibly terrible, jesus

there are what 7 players to the flop a single pair will rarely win this flop and that's all he's drawing to...play some limit poker then turbo muck this flop

oh and shove pre

Stop posting strategy comments man seriously. just lurk and learn, u obv have alot to learn... i usually try not to be a dick but i just sigh everytime i read one of your strategy posts.

3bet or shove pre and never fold on the flop as played

zeal u so crazy.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

5,919,192 games 65.772 secs 89,995 games/sec

Board: Jc Td 5c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.849% 53.54% 00.31% 3169312 18110.50 { AcAs }
Hand 1: 11.546% 11.06% 00.49% 654684 28739.25 { random }
Hand 2: 11.550% 11.06% 00.49% 654676 28984.92 { random }
Hand 3: 11.517% 11.03% 00.49% 652879 28815.92 { random }
Hand 4: 11.539% 11.05% 00.49% 654212 28779.42 { random }

and he has less than the pot behind so he doesnt need anywhere near 50%

someone in the blind shoved for less than the pot and hes obviously crushing that guy's range, and he only has two people left to act. it's a really obvious spot to get it in, seriously it's not close at all.

they don't have random hands loretta they are playing in a 10K BI tournament they have exactly tight hands that play well in multiway pots like JT, 89s, KQ, 55, 67cc, and any number of combinations, there is no 27o in their range you are never a favorite pre in a 6 way pot with AA, you are only around 40-45%, if you flat with AA and go broke on any flop with that many to the flop you might as well be playing a $11 on stars and giving away 200% ROI to people...shove pre ffs

you couldn't make this **** up

i concede defeat, dozens of posters who are way better at donkaments than me have told zeal he's a clown and none of it has sunk in, doubt he's going to listen to me

ok i just read the analysis by phil and the raise size was enough to isolate so re-raise wasn't really needed unless the opener was gonna call light...makes it a different hand really and not too bad by phil in fact it's fine i think but due to previous hand he should prob min raise also if it's a loose table and they are very deep (ldo its the ME) then he should raise to iso every single time

If I was myself I would definately raise or shove preflop. If I was Hellmuth I would almost always flat here preflop because his 3bet range is way too small for it to be a more profitable play than flatting with the intention of stacking on most flops and obv inducing squeezeplays. That being said, in a vacuum, I think it is better to 3bet here most of the time.

Also, the spot was pretty good because of the nature of the openraiser and Hellmuths playstyle. The openraiser is, according to Hellmuth, opening wide, Hellmuth is making sick stupid nitty preflop laydowns all the time. It is like the perfect squeezeplayoppotunity.

i like how he played it and i'm starting to think unrealzeal has been trolling 2+2 for over 8800 posts now...

troll shmoll i just happen to be one of a very few posters who give their honest opinion every time and not afraid to be wrong about it

ok let's see...he's got a perfect resteal stack vs. an EP over-raise who has him covered 10:1, i can't see how flat is better than shove there, he's gonna get called enough that it's gotta be better than flat

also once he flats and it goes 6way this is not a very good flop so i dunno what he's dong here really, just shove pre and double up on the guy, and if you flat pre and get it in -equity how you gonna blame the other guys?

wat exactly was preflop action?

Hellmuth explains it in his article. Blinds 3K/6K/1K. Big stack with 1M raises to 22K (not sure of position). Hellmuth with 135K flat calls one before hijack. CO, BTN, and BB all overcall. BB started with 110K. Don't know other stacks.

Opener had over 1.1 mil -- btw not tryin to second guess a guy who's way better than me, just offering my pov is all

hellmuth played it right given that a lot of other players were going to call with random unpaired cards

As I said in the TV thread, I think PH played it fine. Against someone likely to conclude that you have a monster if you flat there obviously shoving is better.

Yeah it's good because Hellmuth is so bad.

If you learn one thing from this thread, it should be this:

This message is hidden because unrealzeal is on your ignore list.

lol ty ive learnt something in HSMTT today

flatting here pre, then getting it in on the flop seems fine
i def think mini 3 bet call pre would be better tho since villain has a million chips and prob isnt folding pre etc... (especially after 3.6x ing)

Hellmuth mentioned he thought of mini 3-betting or pushing. Think mini 3-bet is the worst option. You likely chase away anyone left to act. No one is going to cold 4-bet light. The original raiser almost always calls the 3-bet, but might fold on the flop, and no longer has the initiative to cbet. Plus a mini 3-bet is more suspicous than a flat call.