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hand vs dfish in stars 320

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09-13-2009 , 11:22 AM

#26

sheetsworld

veteran

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,811

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clayton

there isn't a precedent to 3bet/call AQ here pretty much ever, both players involved are solid aggro and on the tighter side (I think, not positive with bfineman). It's not like a brazilian versus shaun deeb. if AQ gets shoved on we're looking at a range that is ballpark the same as AQ, if not better (like 88+AQ+ maybe or something, idk)

i should also note that I think clubs are kinda discounted here due to sizing, but since it's a lot of air + worse aces you gotta cram. flatting the c/r isnt really an option because we have to get the most value from worse aces by shoving (and repping any ace(?) and clubs)

Why are clubs discounted due to sizing?

09-13-2009 , 11:30 AM

#27

Todd Terry

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16,301

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clayton

i should also note that I think clubs are kinda discounted here due to sizing, but since it's a lot of air + worse aces you gotta cram.

This makes no sense at all.

09-13-2009 , 11:54 AM

#28

Clayton

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 32,236

it makes sense. COUNTER-ARGUMENTED!

sheets, the flop checkraise seems to warrant a fit-or-fold action from bmf, and not many flatcalls overall for bmfs range (cept small aces i guess). so i think clubs would checkraise bigger so as to not lose the effectiveness of its being a draw (c/minraising and facing a shove, one would have to fold zee club draw)

09-13-2009 , 12:39 PM

#29

Todd Terry

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16,301

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clayton

it makes sense. COUNTER-ARGUMENTED!

You're advocating jamming TPTK when according to you his range contains "a lot of air".

09-13-2009 , 01:53 PM

#30

luckychewy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,707

if his air won't barrel but he stacks off lots of lesser ax hands shoving is reasonable

09-13-2009 , 01:56 PM

#31

Clayton

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 32,236

ya todd, did u eat ur breakfast this morning, silly lawyers and their reading comprehension.

GOT EM

*drops mic to floor, walks away

09-13-2009 , 01:57 PM

#32

Todd Terry

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16,301

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckychewy

if his air won't barrel but he stacks off lots of lesser ax hands shoving is reasonable

That's correct but irrelevant, why would anyone ever c/r small with air and then not barrel at least some of the time?

09-13-2009 , 02:17 PM

#33

Clayton

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 32,236

bc it seems rather suicidal for air to barrel most turns on this board texture if flatted

09-13-2009 , 02:26 PM

#34

Chimp__greg

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Terry

That's correct but irrelevant, why would anyone ever c/r small with air and then not barrel at least some of the time?

They might some of the time, but if Ax might also check-fold some of the time on the turn (Like this turn) it's better to make sure to get the lesser Ax in on the flop.

09-13-2009 , 02:37 PM

#35

Todd Terry

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16,301

Giving up in this thread after this. If his range consists of a lot of air on the flop, I would suspect that the small c/r is designed to induce calls from a wide range of hands, including many that will not continue on many turns. Yes, we could lose value from worse As the 20% of the time a club turns, but we might also pick up value from some air hands that otherwise would not have barreled that might think the club is a decent bluff card. The idea either in a vacuum or in this particular context that when someone's c/r range consists of a lot of air and some made hands which we beat we "gotta cram" over the check/raise with TPTK will continue to make no sense to me forever, sorry.

09-13-2009 , 02:40 PM

#36

Chimp__greg

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Terry

I agree with you fwiw, was just pointing out possible reasoning of the counter-argument, if they are assuming that lesser aces check-folding the turn occurs more often than air continuing, which I don't think is the case.

09-13-2009 , 02:58 PM

#37

Clayton

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 32,236

well i think air, especially air from dfish, continues here 0

will buy tropical drinks to anyone who can cite this as wrong and provide proof. dfish gets first dibs.

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