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Foxwoods 0 event 1....easy fold? Foxwoods 0 event 1....easy fold?

02-27-2014 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambedexteras
i disagree black aces.... when i bet my 3k i give myself the potential to win the hand right there or if i get shoved i know where im @, his shove after a 3k bet holds much more merit then a shove if it folds to him.

and i made the decision thinking i am VERY likely behind and even in the UNLIKELY chance im ahead AA and AK still have outs and i wasnt willing to risk my %150 starting stack on it. i think my decision is very different then the mongoloid shove/suckout of the button.
You are wrong for a few reasons.

1) You think "winning the hand right there" is better than letting him shove with whatever he has.

2) You think that if you bet 2-3k and get shoved on you will "know where you are at". You bet 2-3k, got shoved on, didn't "know where you were at"

3) You think "knowing where you are at" is better than maximizing value.

4) You think having a 150% starting stack is not worth risking even if you are a 5:1 favorite to triple up (as you are vs AA and AK).

I do agree BTN played the hand worse than you, if it makes you feel better.
02-27-2014 , 03:18 PM
Ambe, your making a result oriented decision. Just bc the turn and river were cards that would have made you lose. The point being your hand was the best hand w/ Aces drawing to (4 Q's+2 other aces). You have a guy w/ top pair (Only out is aces(2) and 9(4). You had these guys in pretty bad shape here. Unless there was runner runner to give them a flush.

Your fold was questionable. I still do not think its the right play, I was able to say the combos K-Q(on button) broadway type cards/Pair w/ straight draw or flush draws. The other guy had aces, if he had kings or set I would think it would have played differently.
02-27-2014 , 03:25 PM
i agree a check would have been a better move after the flop. in the situation in the future i would check. with that said i thought i knew where i was @ at the time. the first shove even in real time i knew he had AA and I was likely going to call. but the next guy shove i thought HAS to have the nuts. despite him playing a crappy hand b4 the layout of the hand any sane/good player doesnt reshove here without the nuts or @ least a vnh with sick draws. and your right it was something like 5-1 and being backed by friends of mine slightly altered my decision towards the Tighter/more cautious play. but im glad it played out like it did. i cant say ill call next time because it was and is very situation based it my mind.
02-27-2014 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambedexteras
i agree a check would have been a better move after the flop. in the situation in the future i would check. with that said i thought i knew where i was @ at the time. the first shove even in real time i knew he had AA and I was likely going to call. but the next guy shove i thought HAS to have the nuts. despite him playing a crappy hand b4 the layout of the hand any sane/good player doesnt reshove here without the nuts or @ least a vnh with sick draws. and your right it was something like 5-1 and being backed by friends of mine slightly altered my decision towards the Tighter/more cautious play. but im glad it played out like it did. i cant say ill call next time because it was and is very situation based it my mind.
Black aces isn't just giving you advice on this specific situation. He's trying to help you fix your all around thought process for approaching the game. Good advice from him imo
02-27-2014 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakingMoves
Black aces isn't just giving you advice on this specific situation. He's trying to help you fix your all around thought process for approaching the game. Good advice from him imo

+1. OP needs to further develop his thought process... which is why he is here and posting I assume. So kudos for that, OP is walking the path.

I still think I fold because I give the CO too much likelihood to having KK in game and fear shoving against the draws. I don't think this player flats top set in this spot ever once OP opens the flop betting, and his stack is short enough to gii on the flop. I think in his mind, top set and AA are the same damn hand that he thinks he needs to value shove. Is any thinking player just ripping AA on this board? OP has two pair and sets so often once he flats the button bloated pot pre. If I'm riding one bullet(which is a mistake generally), i meta value folding with 150% starting over peeling and having to be right and fade. Perhaps this is a flaw in my thinking, but I'd rather guarantee I'm rolling along and nit/hero fold. With these two player types at the table, I like my chances to keep chipping up. Liveaments, yum.

OP gains meta value from staying at the table to increase his experience up from his usual level. Tuition, so to speak. Other than buy in... this is sooooo an MSMTT hand as someone pointed out. And as I said before.... you still see cray cray caca at 600 live especially in the hinterlands... its not like its the Tuesday VDSE or Wynn Classic event.

But I certainly wouldn't think i made the right play despite the run out when the cards were turned over. Both villains had exactly what they had to have if hero calls. I was too uncertain they didn't have those hands given reads and hero stack.
02-27-2014 , 04:54 PM
And having the button get the cheese is a great result, assuming we fold. You have position on a player who will be in chip distro mode instead of mr chip lock down guy. Which is nice, LOL
02-27-2014 , 05:09 PM
The guy on the button made a bad call pre flop. But post flop play, *hypothetically* he read the situation well. He saw the nit 3bet and just shoved over a 3k bet on a wet board.
The 3k bet on the flop more so seems like a defensive bet rather than showing the actual strength of your hand. And when you make that bet, It gives the Nit less options due to his stack size, so he shoved over top.(i think you get more info by checking flop and seeing what others do, wet board but if you already felt like you were behind to begin with why put more money into it?). The guy on the button made the best hand fold and saw a change to get it in against overpair to board, w/ equity and outs.
02-27-2014 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherman
+1. OP needs to further develop his thought process... which is why he is here and posting I assume..
+1 yes . was seeing if more ppl thought this was a bad fold where i lucked out or a good fold. the consensus is bad fold over all and thats fine lol. again i think i knew the right play was to call but this was biggest live tourny i had played to date and was playing a lil more scared then i shoulda been. i will work on this. i have since played 7 $25 pubaments with like 80-100 ppl and have top 16'd 5 of 7 and final tabled 3 of 7 so i feel it has definetely heightened my level of play.. i will hopefully be playing an event or 2 in the foxwoods series coming up as i have recently started becoming much more active reading/posting in 2+2 and its been pretty helpful to how i approach the game.

      
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