Look ok? fwiw he insta shipped

Full Tilt Poker Game #5768739115: $35,000 Guarantee (43205368), Table 4 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:47:09 ET - 2008/03/24
Seat 1: The Universe112 (5,750)
Seat 2: DUSoonerKid (2,600)
Seat 3: lDustybill (6,080)
Seat 4: peisesjuk (2,570)
Seat 5: Nocturnick (4,440)
Seat 6: Paulieballs1 (2,210)
Seat 7: GongJoo (5,670)
Seat 8: Pablo Diablo (3,410)
DUSoonerKid posts the small blind of 25
lDustybill posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Universe112 [Tc 8c]
peisesjuk folds
Nocturnick raises to 150
Paulieballs1 folds
GongJoo folds
Pablo Diablo has 15 seconds left to act
Pablo Diablo folds
The Universe112 raises to 450
DUSoonerKid folds
The Climax sits down
The Climax adds 11,185
lDustybill folds
Nocturnick has 15 seconds left to act
Nocturnick calls 300
*** FLOP *** [9s 2c Td]
Nocturnick checks
The Universe112 checks
*** TURN *** [9s 2c Td] [6c]
Nocturnick checks
The Universe112 bets 500
Nocturnick raises to 3,990, and is all in
The Universe112 calls 3,490

i bet a little bit more on turn but other than that ya.

pretty standard. it's ok imo

I prob check behind turn unless you're happy to get checkraised for some reason and don't understand why you'd ever play preflop like this vs an unknown.

Preflop is really bad. Your play is fundamentally a bluff and most people are raising tight from ep and will call with most of there range since they have a strong hand a lot, if he is active from ep he will still call a lot because he is active and doesn't like to fold. As played Idk what to do on the turn because I think bet calling sucks, but I think he c/rs pretty rarely.

My first thought exactly, re: why bet the turn. Also puke at PF.

making -ev plays pf is now called the djk. lol. lol.

Fold preflop.
Check back flop.
Check back turn.
Call some Rivers.

EDIT: And obv get some value on river flushes

its for sure official two plus two has become too nitty for the majority of you to be winners. If you really want to talk about the hand....i am almost never getting 4 bet lets say he can 4 bet QQ+ and AK so obviously getting 4 bet is no big deal. Its also very unlikely he checks a better hand here twice...our hand is obviously underrepped on the the turn and the range of hands that our line looks like is probably AK AQ and maybe some under pairs... so getting check raised here is kind of the idea but getting shoved on was a little bit excessive. Calling these plays -ev is just ridiculous considering the depth of stacks; the only way this is like "really spewy" is if hes a very very tight opener and we are going to be 4 bet often, which most randoms are not and therefore will not. As far as addressing specific commentary, pudge, yes its a bluff if you look at it that way...I think our actual holding is less important versus the range we're representing here against this guys calling range preflop. I am not trying to win the pot preflop necessarily as much as i think my repped range picks up a ton of equity post flop.Checking the turn here is lolable for the same reasons as stated way above.

lol, you underrepped T8... At least it was suited.

Bet flop?

sigh do you think you're good? lol. I meant Post flop our hand is under repped. But i suppose i shouldn't be surprised that you didn't understand what i wrote.

WTF? I was kidding a hole. Apparently you're better than everyone on this forum, so why are you posting?

I don't do pf myself but I've got nothing against it.

Flop check seems good once you flop weak tp.

Turn bet seems mandatory once he checks twice and to be honest, post-flop, my only question is whether I'm right to fist-pump when I call. I mean, our line is so FOS that this seems like a really easy call. He's not expecting us to check behind with an overpair on that flop and he thinks we're going to fold the rest of our range. I can't see why we wouldn't be happy getting it in with TP+FD+GS.

first of all you werent kidding. Secondly your post contained no advice whatsoever. the Bet flop was a nice edit but not what you originally put. I dont mind discussing my play but I think the ridiculous amount of follow the thread regurgitations is a waste of time and a poison to the site.

Do you have a reason for preflop? First sizing is pretty bad imo and I would make it 525. The reasons for preflop are to balance your three betting range, which is irrelevant in tourneys. Because he folds a lot preflop so you gain his chips in the middle, which is largely irrelevant since it is only 150 chips and it requires a read that a random tourney will fold. Because you think he play "fit or fold" postflop so he will call pre a lot and than fold a lot of flops. On the turn you will rarely get two streets out of worse hands so the reason to bet is to induce a bluff or to build the pot on t,7,8 club rivers. If you are trying to induce a bluff fine bet snap call turn, but I would prefer to have some sort of read instead of just assuming he will monkey his chips in with overcards.

Pf is okay but I'd rather call. If you want to 3bet pf make it 555. As played sort of a sick spot TBH I like the turn bet he rarely c/r and you can build a pot when you hit and showdown when you miss.

okay i can concede that making it a little more might be better but i disagree pudge that varying 3 betting ranges is unimportant in tourneys. In the latter stages this is certainly the case but when youre this deep its important to mix it up a little imo

+1. my exact thoughts all the way.

i pretty much agree with like everything you write it seems

This play ranges from good to terrible but impossible to give commentary without a good read on the villian and table dyamics. Calling the turn c/r seems pretty thin, did you even know if you were calling for value? I have no problem checking behind two streets with top pair / club draw if I felt like I would have to be bet/folding the turn with a relatively high frequency, as that's a huge mistake. But you obviously didn't fold the turn so there's a difference in thought process going on here so maybe there's something your not telling us.......



Quote from OP:

i am almost never getting 4 bet lets say he can 4 bet QQ+ and AK so obviously getting 4 bet is no big deal.

-That's a standard TAGs value 4-betting range, not the 4-betting range of a rando full tilt player, which definately includes bluffs like ATs and KQs and worse every once and a while (low PPs, SCs, anything really).


Its also very unlikely he checks a better hand here twice...

-Why? There is absolutely no reason to assume this and is honestly actually pretty likely he checks here because a) MTT players are passive donks and never want to do the betting and b) you 3-bet him and no one wants to lead into the preflop reraiser to possibly get blown off their hand / put in a tough spot


our hand is obviously underrepped on the the turn and the range of hands that our line looks like is probably AK AQ and maybe some under pairs...

- Our hand is not underrepped, it would only be underrepped if we had a hand that was actually closer to what our real range represented, like JJ or AK. By checking back on the flop you alter the range of hands that you defined when you 3bet and you look slightly weaker to your villian. We don't even know if the villian can hand read at all. This is the incorrect reasoning of why you thought you could now play top pair T8 for stacks on the turn, IMO


so getting check raised here is kind of the idea but getting shoved on was a little bit excessive.

- Are you reading a random mtt donk for turning a made hand into a bluff here on the turn because of your bet? If he's checkraising you it's because he was planning on doing it from the beginning almost every single time (the same goes for if he check/calls, obviously), and the size of the raise doesn't really matter that much.


Calling these plays -ev is just ridiculous considering the depth of stacks;

-The fact of the matter is it just doesn't matter how +EV or -EV it is. Flatting and playing more passive is almost going to be more +ev than 3-betting in this spot, and that's what matters.


the only way this is like "really spewy" is if hes a very very tight opener and we are going to be 4 bet often, which most randoms are not and therefore will not.

- There's so many ways this is spewy, but we'll start with we don't have a hand we want to stack off with, and we are bloating the pot against someone and we have no idea how they will react. The fact of the matter is the play could be -EV or +EV and we will never know because there is no read and no information. But especially against a random in position, why would you try to turn such a good marginal hand that's going to make a lot of money going to showdown into a situation where it's possible you could be playing for stacks against some guy who's reading the situation a lot differently than you are? You basically level yourself.


As far as addressing specific commentary, pudge, yes its a bluff if you look at it that way...I think our actual holding is less important versus the range we're representing here against this guys calling range preflop. I am not trying to win the pot preflop necessarily as much as i think my repped range picks up a ton of equity post flop.Checking the turn here is lolable for the same reasons as stated way above.

- You sound like a caveman in both your wording and your reasoning. Early MTT poker against randos is not a brute force game.

In conclusion I like the 3-bet preflop in the right context, but I hate it if you dont' know what's going on. You had no idea, so in your case it was probably a bad play, IMO. Also you came across as a huge douche in this thread a lot, try being nice to people (I enjoyed reading the OP but none of your replies). Also 3-bet slightly bigger pre.

Results?

i really think you should bet this flop and expect villian to play very honestly against you on this board (ie, you wont get checkraised unless you have 5 outs).

Mar,
Get on AIM more.

yeah i meant to say cheers to mario for the good post

This isn't a very good reason to bet though, essentially you want us to bet to see where we're at. If villian has us beat say slowplaying a big pair giving ourselves a couple shots to draw out on him for the same price as bet/folding the flop adds a ton of EV (he have a good chance of stacking him when we hit), even if we end up paying off a river bet sometimes mistakenly thinking we've induced a bluff. If we're ahead he either has 6 outs so no need to get too concerned about protecting our hand and we can induce bluffs, or he has a smaller pair and we can likely get max value from him just as easily later in the hand. Also he can prob show up with 87s or QJs sometimes and checkraise bluff I mean we have no read on this guy whatsoever. I do think turn is very close between betting and checking I'm not actually sure which is better but I don't think unknowns checkraise bluff your turn bet nearly as often as some of you think, this isn't an omg I tarped him with my flop check fistpump call situation at all.