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BUSTED 00 WPT SHORT STACK HELP!!!! BUSTED 00 WPT SHORT STACK HELP!!!!

04-23-2015 , 04:03 PM
So I was playing the WPT showdown and The blinds were 1,000 2,000 with a 300 ante. I had about 35,000 in front of me. I pick up pocket tens UTG, and I open shove for 35k. It folds around to the button who picks up Queens and Reshoves it for 40k and Im busto just like that. I need some advice please on how I played the hand, should I have just opened with a small raise and then possibly folded if the button reshoves. I only had 17.5 big blinds left. Thanks for the help.
04-23-2015 , 11:35 PM
Probably bad luck. However, it is probably better to raise than shove 17.5xBB in ep. If 3-bet, usually get it in, but decide based on opponents position, age and appearance, stack size, aggressiveness, and approximate 3-bet percentage. You could also fold in some cases to a lot of action.

Last edited by betgo; 04-23-2015 at 11:41 PM.
04-24-2015 , 09:43 AM
I dont think open shoving is going to be a bad play, but I'd usually take the line Betgo said.. r/gii 17bb w/ TT, even tho I'd not be extremely happy when I get 3bet raising UTG from this stack as it is perceived to be really strong, but I guess TT is just too strong to fold if no madness happens...
04-24-2015 , 08:08 PM
Yeh, open push is OK. If you raise and get 3-bet, it isn't a clear gii against one player. The UTG raise with 17xBB looks strong. There are some people who like to 3-bet bluff in this spot, and others who would never bluff. So it is an easy gii against an agro big stack, but probably an easy fold against an apparently tight player, particularly if somewhat older. Sizing and position of the 3-bet are important too. So, decide, but usually gii.
04-24-2015 , 10:21 PM
Thanks for the replies....Im normally a big cash game player but I want to start playing tournaments but I really need to work on my short stack game because in order to be a great tourney player you must have a good short stack game. In cash games I never have to worry about being short stacked so this is a big adjustment for me....if you guys have any General guidelines or good short stack strategies I would love some input and thank you.
04-25-2015 , 01:57 AM
Your question seems real basic. However, the situation is totally different than in live cash. It isn't just being short stacked. There is more fighting over blinds and antes and more 3-betting in tournaments. That effects situations like this and makes it usually correct to gii here if you raise and get 3-bet.
04-25-2015 , 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo
Yeh, open push is OK. If you raise and get 3-bet, it isn't a clear gii against one player. The UTG raise with 17xBB looks strong. There are some people who like to 3-bet bluff in this spot, and others who would never bluff. So it is an easy gii against an agro big stack, but probably an easy fold against an apparently tight player, particularly if somewhat older. Sizing and position of the 3-bet are important too. So, decide, but usually gii.
Seems like the perfect answer really. If you open and get more than one person interested behind then gives you a chance to get away also (mentioned above by someone else
04-27-2015 , 07:26 PM
I don't really agree with betgo's assessment.

I think open pushing UTG or any EP is wrong with 17.5 blinds and I think it is probably wrong from MP as well. The problem is you will be called by any big stack with AK/AQ and possibly AJ and that type of flip will be costly. How many times in a tourney do you think you are going to win all-in shoves that are flips? If you do it twice you are roughly a 75% favorite to be out of the tournament. And so on.

Unless somebody has shown me that they are shoving so wide over my UTG raise I will almost always fold TT. At best you are flipping. At worst you are 20% to remain in the tourney.

Also, you will tend to get far more respect for a min raise with between 15 and 25 blinds because it looks like you are very strong and trying to induce a shove. You may not get re-raised by JJ/QQ or AQ/AK. They may just call in position and it may save you your tournament life.

I was playing in a $600 FW tourney (low end of High Stakes MTT...) and I min raised 99 from EP at the FT. Big guy who was bullying the table shoved over the top from HJ. I thought about fighting another day as above and folded. The bully flipped over AA ...
04-30-2015 , 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick
I don't really agree with betgo's assessment.

I think open pushing UTG or any EP is wrong with 17.5 blinds and I think it is probably wrong from MP as well. The problem is you will be called by any big stack with AK/AQ and possibly AJ and that type of flip will be costly. How many times in a tourney do you think you are going to win all-in shoves that are flips? If you do it twice you are roughly a 75% favorite to be out of the tournament. And so on.

Unless somebody has shown me that they are shoving so wide over my UTG raise I will almost always fold TT. At best you are flipping. At worst you are 20% to remain in the tourney.

Also, you will tend to get far more respect for a min raise with between 15 and 25 blinds because it looks like you are very strong and trying to induce a shove. You may not get re-raised by JJ/QQ or AQ/AK. They may just call in position and it may save you your tournament life.

I was playing in a $600 FW tourney (low end of High Stakes MTT...) and I min raised 99 from EP at the FT. Big guy who was bullying the table shoved over the top from HJ. I thought about fighting another day as above and folded. The bully flipped over AA ...
betgo said it would probably better to raise than shove..........
04-30-2015 , 03:42 AM
this is very simple raise call and if u raise and there's a bunch of crazy action behind like 3bet 4bet 5bet whatever u can fold ur hand but this is just to strong when u shove ur getting players to possibly hero fold 99s 88s when if u raise u can get them to shove over u so ya this is a pretty clear raise call
04-30-2015 , 02:43 PM
What if I pick up Ace King in this spot....Is Open Shoving a good play or just raising 2.5 x is better??
05-01-2015 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcpoker91
this is very simple raise call and if u raise and there's a bunch of crazy action behind like 3bet 4bet 5bet whatever u can fold ur hand but this is just to strong when u shove ur getting players to possibly hero fold 99s 88s when if u raise u can get them to shove over u so ya this is a pretty clear raise call
I said raise/decide. Most people will 3b/gii with 88/99, and some will bluff 3b/fold. However, live there are some players, particularly older, amateur, or live only or cash pros who will flat with strong hands and only 3b stronger. They are more likely to play that may because the UTG short stack raise represents strength. So I think you can fold to 3bs from certain players based on reads, and this is another reason to raise rather than push.

In general, pushing 17xBB is better from mid to late position where you can have a wide range. Here you define your hand to much and also can't react to information. TT is probably not the best hand to shove here with, as you get called by JJ+/AK or 99+/AQ, so you lose value. It might be better to shove AK/AQ, as you get more better hands to fold and these hands play worse postflop than TT. If the table is tight, you could semibluff shove a small pp or suited broadway.

      
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