Live $350 tournament at Borgata

CO: 8k
Button: 10k
Hero (BB): 6k

200/400/50

CO is an older quiet gentleman who limps quite a bit but is very passive, he can't hand read obviously and just plays his cards.

Button is typical live fish who limps a lot and is also passive/bad

co limps, button limps, hero checks J8hh

7c Th 3s Hero checks, co pauses briefly (might just be slow and old, no real read here but he did pause for like 2 seconds) and checks, button checks

Turn 4h so now we have a gut shot/flush draw/overcard Who likes a lead, who likes a check/call, check/raise, check/fold?

Shove pre and increase your stack by 30%. As played c/f.

Bigger hearts are part of limpers ranges as are 65 (got there) and 98 which negates your overcard theory.

Co-sign the above.. either shove this pre.. or c/f..

Wow, people are really shoving J8 here for 6k. This didn't even really occur to me, seemed like too many chips to shove.

I find it to be pretty hillarious that you think that based on a pf limp and a flop check that these two hands make up a significant portion of the limpers range. these hands are less likely than AJs or KQ because they often get bet on the flop. Being even the least bit scared of the fact that he might have 65 is a huge spew.

I often shove preflop (CO/Button open limpers should be pretty weak and your hand plays well enough against their range when you do get called,) as played I check the flop, as played I open shove the turn.

Where did you see me say they were a significant part of the 2 limpers ranges? What I said was that a bigger flush (Ax Kx Q10 etc...) plus connectors such as 98 and 65 were part of their ranges and as played I would c/f.

fwiw I think 65 is almost impossible, I am pretty sure he folds that preflop.

It seems like based on reads they're pretty passive. Unless you were checking flop intending to check raise all in, I would lead flop and then pot turn a committing amount. Live players are ridiculously nittier and strong tens don't hit their limping range at all. And if they did hit the flop, I'm sure you'd know it.

bet turn.. why is everyone making this harder than it is? you have two limpers who limp a lot, why bother defining their ranges much; the board hits them a little more than average but they both fold plenty. they aren't going to bet/fold often, they aren't going to raise often, when they call you have outs and/or can bluff river based on lots of factors.

Shove preflop might be marginally +EV but so is checking, just see the flop and play.