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b162 early spot with AA b162 early spot with AA

04-15-2015 , 11:31 AM
Hey,

villain is some reg, dont recognize him, running 18/13 over 800 hands. We were both playing standard poker for early levels.

Whats your play on flop? Do you just fold, or call flop/lead turn or gii on flop?




    Poker Stars, $150 Buy-in (20/40 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #35972061

    MP2: 3,275 (81.9 bb)
    MP3: 2,840 (71 bb)
    CO: 2,875 (71.9 bb)
    BTN: 2,813 (70.3 bb)
    SB: 3,080 (77 bb)
    Hero (BB): 2,995 (74.9 bb)
    UTG+1: 4,047 (101.2 bb)
    UTG+2: 2,355 (58.9 bb)
    MP1: 2,955 (73.9 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with A A
    UTG+1 raises to 120, 7 folds, Hero raises to 360, UTG+1 calls 240

    Flop: (740) 7 Q 9 (2 players)
    Hero bets 380, UTG+1 raises to 878, Hero calls 498

    Turn: (2,496) 2 (2 players)
    Hero checks, UTG+1 checks

    River: (2,496) J (2 players)
    Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 2,809 and is all-in, Hero folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: 2,496 pot
    Final Board: 7 Q 9 2 J
    Hero mucked A A and lost (-1,238 net)
    UTG+1 mucked and won 2,496 (1,258 net)



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    04-15-2015 , 02:23 PM
    Too many draws. I think i GII OTF.
    04-15-2015 , 04:27 PM
    How often he raises cbets, ftcb in 800 hands might be relevant.
    04-15-2015 , 04:51 PM
    Call pre vs reg. imo.

    If he is at all thinking, he will play pretty perfectly against our faced up range and we dont want that.

    As played, prolly GII on flop. No point in calling.
    04-15-2015 , 05:00 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by user12345
    How often he raises cbets, ftcb in 800 hands might be relevant.
    10(10) ftcb IP, 10(10) raise cbet if that helps. IMO in this spot, stats doesnt really help.
    04-15-2015 , 05:02 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Noob3R
    Call pre vs reg. imo.

    If he is at all thinking, he will play pretty perfectly against our faced up range and we dont want that.

    As played, prolly GII on flop. No point in calling.
    you suggest not to have 3bet range in that spot?
    04-15-2015 , 05:10 PM
    I think its better to not have, but it really depends on the style of play I guess. I just feel that, not having a 3bet range here, makes it more easier to play for us, and harder for our opponents as we are not "capped" from the BB.
    04-15-2015 , 06:32 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Noob3R
    Call pre vs reg. imo.

    If he is at all thinking, he will play pretty perfectly against our faced up range and we dont want that.

    As played, prolly GII on flop. No point in calling.
    Good advice here. He is checking back his draws that don't hit on turn really often after we flat the flop 3B. By just calling preflop in this early stage and 75BBs deep we don't inflate a pot OOP that would require us to play for stacks on wet/unfavorable boards with AA. I think I like check calling this flop if
    we had just called pf. Then, I would lead most turns (including hearts) that don't complete straights. I think the biggest question we ask ourselves is what line would cause the biggest headache for us, and then do something else lol
    04-15-2015 , 06:42 PM
    Definitely 4x raise pre this deep oop. Flatting sometimes is good too. Because we hold Ah I would prefer c/c line otf, c/c turn and re-evaluate river. Very few worse hands giving us action when we c-bet ourselves.
    04-15-2015 , 07:00 PM
    preeeeeetty pretty sweet flop for utg´s range so i´d checkilicheck on the flop w/ most of my range
    would go bigger pre
    04-16-2015 , 02:00 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mad1Lee
    Definitely 4x raise pre this deep oop. Flatting sometimes is good too. Because we hold Ah I would prefer c/c line otf, c/c turn and re-evaluate river. Very few worse hands giving us action when we c-bet ourselves.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MartinGuthOBV
    preeeeeetty pretty sweet flop for utg´s range so i´d checkilicheck on the flop w/ most of my range
    would go bigger pre
    think mad1lee described it best a and guthOBV with UTG range.

    river can be a call though i think when taking mad1lee's line.
    04-16-2015 , 07:34 AM
    Agree w bigger pre.If utg usually gets to the flop w something like 99+ ATs+, AK, KQs-T9s prob prefer c/c flop, I think betting is ok tho, w b/c pref to b/gii. River is tough spot..his value range is thin Th9h, maybe QJs, 99? Dk if he gets KJ-KThh, and some smaller hearts SCs to flop or not.
    04-16-2015 , 09:05 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AmpeFund
    Agree w bigger pre.If utg usually gets to the flop w something like 99+ ATs+, AK, KQs-T9s prob prefer c/c flop, I think betting is ok tho, w b/c pref to b/gii. River is tough spot..his value range is thin Th9h, maybe QJs, 99? Dk if he gets KJ-KThh, and some smaller hearts SCs to flop or not.
    Is going 4x + pre going to generate many more folds from his utg range? Also, the bigger we 3B OOP to an utg raise the more we telegraph our hand to opponent and let him know his implied odds are great if he hits sets/straights/flushes/combo draws. I'm certainly not saying that you should never 3B AA OOP to an utg raise, but I think there are a lot of merits to flatting pre. As Noob said, we allow opponent to play perfectly against our perceived range of AK,AA,KK (maybe QQ).

    Also, it is unlikely that we get significant action from unimproved hands besides AK(1 outer on the A),KK and QQ. Where as, if we chose to flat here and opponent is sitting on hands like AQ/AJ we will get significant action on dryish boards when J,Q and A hit. Also medium pockets like 9s/10s/Js will put significant $ in the pot without hitting sets on rag boards that wouldn't if we 3 bet pre

    Last edited by doyougnome; 04-16-2015 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Additional thought
    04-16-2015 , 09:19 AM
    bet/fold flop

    he has a set a lot. ur the best scenario he has a combo draw

    or check/call flop

    don mind flatting pre too
    04-16-2015 , 09:38 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doyougnome
    Is going 4x + pre going to generate many more folds from his utg range? Also, the bigger we 3B OOP to an utg raise the more we telegraph our hand to opponent and let him know his implied odds are great if he hits sets/straights/flushes/combo draws. I'm certainly not saying that you should never 3B AA OOP to an utg raise, but I think there are a lot of merits to flatting pre. As Noob said, we allow opponent to play perfectly against our perceived range of AK,AA,KK (maybe QQ).

    Also, it is unlikely that we get significant action from unimproved hands besides AK(1 outer on the A),KK and QQ. Where as, if we chose to flat here and opponent is sitting on hands like AQ/AJ we will get significant action on dryish boards when J,Q and A hit. Also medium pockets like 9s/10s/Js will put significant $ in the pot without hitting sets on rag boards that wouldn't if we 3 bet pre
    holy nit. i think 4x is going to generate more folds than 3x. Also, if you think 3b makes your hand look super strong, then this is a good bluff spot pf. Also, the smaller you make your 3b, the better his implication scenario is (better immediate price and more money to win post).

    assuming that you think pf is a decent spot to 3b (I do cause it gets so much credit) and this is a good board for him, you're going to have to deal w the AK and bluffs in your range. Having the AA w AofH makes a pretty great candidate to check and protect that range otf as the heart allows you to work to the river more easily.

    i think betting bigger on the flop to set up a 2 street game and charge him the maximum w/ hands that have eq/tp is an option. going smaller allows him to realize a lot of eq and pick up more runouts that allow him to bluff or kill our action. i also think he'll be content to call ip w/ a bunch of draws rather than look to bluff raise. As played, i still think you're looking to gii otf at this spr. he still has plenty of Qx and you get to either protect against or get value from his draws.

    as played, i'm confused by his turn check/river rep, so i probably click call. i'm pretty stationy when i don't think things make sense fwiw.

    Last edited by potbets; 04-16-2015 at 09:46 AM.
    04-16-2015 , 09:44 AM
    What's your 3bet range in this spot? I'd flat pre.
    04-16-2015 , 09:47 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doyougnome
    Is going 4x + pre going to generate many more folds from his utg range? Also, the bigger we 3B OOP to an utg raise the more we telegraph our hand to opponent and let him know his implied odds are great if he hits sets/straights/flushes/combo draws. I'm certainly not saying that you should never 3B AA OOP to an utg raise, but I think there are a lot of merits to flatting pre. As Noob said, we allow opponent to play perfectly against our perceived range of AK,AA,KK (maybe QQ).

    Also, it is unlikely that we get significant action from unimproved hands besides AK(1 outer on the A),KK and QQ. Where as, if we chose to flat here and opponent is sitting on hands like AQ/AJ we will get significant action on dryish boards when J,Q and A hit. Also medium pockets like 9s/10s/Js will put significant $ in the pot without hitting sets on rag boards that wouldn't if we 3 bet pre
    A little bigger pre, 3-4x. Not opposed flatting pre, but not having a 3b range here is not good, imo. Prob hardly ever 3b QQ-JJ, but adding ATs+, a small-mid sc some % of time, maybe mid-ppr sometimes, is good, imo.

    I don't agree w allowing vill to play perfectly necessarily; depending on your overall 3b game here.
    04-16-2015 , 10:01 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AmpeFund
    A little bigger pre, 3-4x. Not opposed flatting pre, but not having a 3b range here is not good, imo. Prob hardly ever 3b QQ-JJ, but adding ATs+, a small-mid sc some % of time, maybe mid-ppr sometimes, is good, imo.

    I don't agree w allowing vill to play perfectly necessarily; depending on your overall 3b game here.
    Shouldn't say not good/good. Should say, less/more profitable
    04-24-2015 , 01:07 PM
    gii otf. Don't let him improve - with str8 and flush draws he has 55% against you tho but that's only if he has both. UTG raises are so commonplace you can't put him on such a tight range which means the flop gives him more cred. QJ, QK, QA or any suited cards 9 or up have equity. Against a reg gii early polarises you and he will mostly call with better. You have to defend your AA so an all in isn't totally stupid and a dece amount of the time est. 30%> you could double.
    04-26-2015 , 02:22 PM
    I feel 4 betting all in on the flop is the winning play here as you are getting called often by worse hands like AQ which you dominate. You also definitely want to charge any draws he may have.

    The river is sick and very close. You have the A of hearts so it makes it less likely he has a flush here unless he has like K10 89 or 910 of hearts. He raised UTG and called your 3 bet so this seems less likely.

    It's a puke worthy river which is why I go all in on the flop to avoid situations like this. I don't know I might call 30% of the time and fold 70% of the time.

          
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