We were having a discussion about a hand over dinner last night and I said I'd end up posting it so here it is.

You're playing in a WSOP 1500 tournament.

Blinds 200/400 with 50 ante.

Your stack: 10000 (25 BB's)
Button: Covers, let's say 12000, but covers is the important part.

You hold JJ in the SB.

Preflop: Folds to the button, button raises to 1200, hero?

I said that 3 betting to 4000 as a go-and-go or just shoving is best here close to always (or if it's the type of villain to spaz out, 3 bet small.) Serge said in certain situations he will be flatting. I said it would take an extremely rare (almost never) set of circumstances to make me think flatting > 3 betting.

Thoughts HSMTT?

3bizzle that shizzle

+1

3bet, depending on opponent 3betting regular is better, against others jamming is better.
Cheers!
John

1 vote for 3-bet

Special circumstances: I would flat if bb is prone to squeezing and/or button is getting it in really light postflop (i.e. opponents that will bet/call any pair/any draw that they flop) and not so light preflop.

With no information about how villain plays, I 3bet to ~3700 (say, "2500 more") and go allin on most flops if he decides to flat

I can't really imagine that playing it a different way is better.

I 3 bet with very rare exceptions

Only and I mean ONLY if you've seen villain overplay every hand he has been involved in would calling be better than raising. It'd have to be a very high variance player.

If you have QQ+, you can profitably call with wider play-styles.

I'd also like to add that I don't think flatting is bad, as I'd think there are fair # of villains in the WSOP 1500 field that fit the description I provided above.

What everyone else said.

What situations/ percent of time is he flatting?

i hardly ever evr flat here.

That's a large part of what I was saying at dinner. A good chunk of those guys will lay down a bizarre amount of hands PF, but will never fold anything postflop.

I also said I'd 3 bet the majority of the time, too. But I think just looking at our hand and 3 betting automatically = losing money.

Isn't that true with any hand? If we are that confident in out playing our opponent post flop, we could flat with 27o.

If old man Shove...If young man 3 bet to 3675

this was really a debate?

3bet or shove depending on the villain obv

this

Also, I thought maybe this argument was about the correct way to spell argument.

Look how sick my Mod powers are. Now nobody knows what you're talking about and my spelling is flawless. Mwa haha!

always 3b/c... 3betting a little small if i have an aggro image to induce 4bet... id probably flat KK+

Except for the title in every reply lol... please don't ban me now.

I think andthar is pretty far off on auto 3 betting = losing money by a lot, if your going to flat your hand because you dont want to force them out of the hand, then easily adjust your 3betting size to your player and go from there. There are way to many players out there that you can profitably exploit by 3 betting smaller because they dont adjust their calling range properly to the raise size.

not close for me

The only question in this hand is whether to shove or 3bet less then allin.

I think it is pretty close between reraising, pushing, and calling. I don't think JJ plays well for a straight go and go, as you tend to get called only when way behind.

Against a typical bad player in fairly early in a fairly low buyin event, flat calling has advantages in that it allows villain to make mistakes postflop.

i re raise almost always, I MIGHT flat call if there was a very very squeeze happy player in the bb.