thought this was somewhat interesting and curious as to what is best in this spot out of position to win this pot without hitting? should i check shove river? seems like there is fold equity with such a small bet but could perhaps be a level with a king? could represent KQ/109/KJ/77/kt(maybe? guess so) on river

that being said on the river... what about the flop? perhaps because its a tough spot to do anything if we don't hit on river we should be C/R flop and then just c/r KQ flush draws 2pair etc on flop. if that's the case, what are we doing vs an EP/MP tighter opening range, probably not c/r KQ for value so that makes our value combos pretty low...

then that leaves c/c flop and lead turn i guess, but feel like it looks like a draw as well... guess we just have to c/r flop with value combos and then the combo flush draws we'll have makes up enough for it?
anyway , thoughts?
**** i guess i forgot lead flop too.. hmm!

[converted_hand][hand_history]Absolute, 30/60 blinds No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8154552

CO: 5,532 (92.2 bb)
BTN: 7,662 (127.7 bb)
SB: 9,655 (160.9 bb)
Hero (BB): 4,150 (69.2 bb)
UTG+2: 4,223 (70.4 bb)
MP1: 8,361 (139.4 bb)
MP2: 11,369 (189.5 bb)
MP3: 3,115 (51.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q T
5 folds, BTN raises to 180, SB folds, Hero calls 120

Flop: (390) J 7 K (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets 195, Hero calls 195

Turn: (780) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets 365, Hero calls 365

River: (1,510) K (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets 645

hero....

As played I would fold. I haven't played Pearl that much but I don't THINK he will let go of much here if you shove - I might be wrong.
But what house are you going to rep on this board? KJ/77? No. If you raised flop and barreled, a shove river makes more sense.

yeah its unlikely i c/c 2 pair or set on this flop altho i do sometimes i feel like i have to c/r with QT here or lead c/c just doesnt work well on later streets it seems

Ya its too hard to rep anything that you would actually c/r river with for value here. He's going to know that you will still just flat all K's, so there's nothing to rep really.

so that being said, is the most optimal line here to c/c twice(maybe just once if we don't turn flush draw) and give up river? should we be more aggressive on the flop to prevent this milkage?

This is good as long as you fold river. You don't have to bluff every time you get a draw. If you insist on trying flop lead is best.

edit: Turn c/r is whatever, I think it can work a lot but the price you pay when it fails is really big and 2 flush draws out there even PJ might call down semi-light. You also need to be concerned he'll choose to pot control some of the hands you're tryign to get him to fold.

nh, only alternative is to lead flop so you can rep hearts

no one likes c/r turn?

nh

i do

Stacks are a bit awkward for c/r turn, would prefer they be shallower so that we can be happy getting it in or deeper so his turn 3betting range becomes nutted. I think leading the flop is definitely best. As played just fold, don't talk yourself into doing something because your hand was strong at one point!

def just fold the river, you rep way to thin if you c/r, Turn you could c/r but flatting is clearly fine too. NH

petition to get busto_soon to stop posting?

hah

+1

Why, just because he's a ginger?

The other problem with this line is that its so hard to get a decent sized bet called on river when we do hit because our hand will look so much what it is.
Alot of the lines we can take here are fairly awkward and are going to have some form of transparancy. I think what we should take from this is acknowledging how difficult it is to play draws optimally out of position.
I mean, flop lead is ookkk but its fairly spewey because we're going to have to triple barrel it alot if we want to be balanced and we're just not necessarily going to get alot of chips if we do hit.
C/R turn I think is going to be fairly transparant as well as we're not repping too much in terms of our value hands. C/R flop would obv be better if we already had the FD as well, but as it stands with just the up and down draw I think its pretty spewey.
As played c/c twice is prob fine.
You prob don't want to discuss this but I think folding pre here is def best especially with UB structure.

ur ******ed?

He should make his posts subscription based. I'd pay $5/month for him to stop posting them publicly and get on the private list!

why?

Because his post are absolute dribble and contribute nothing. You and everyone else would just bet better off putting him on ignore...

Way to contribute to strat discussion man.

Dont be a d bag

petition to have mastrblastr and ruben give their thoughts since they posted =p

his comment is totally douchey, although you shouldn't be surprised considering where you are.

if you're going to fold QTs PF to an opponent raising a super wide range on the BTN, then you should probably consider just unregging instead.

sure playing this particular flop might be a little tough, it's not really that tough, and there are plently of textures that will be pretty easy to play.

point being you should be able to show a profit calling this hand against BTN's opening range.

as to the hand, i like OP's line and if there is a better one i think it involves leading the flop.

thats what i meant, i just expressed it in a shortened form