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2 OOP with JQs 2 OOP with JQs

03-05-2010 , 01:50 AM
I'm new to the table, and haven't showen anything since I got here, but this is the 3rd hand I've raised this orbit. He's raised most of the time when I haven't. Table chat seems to indicate villain is running super hot, obviously; he's got a name I recognise, location Atlanta, and is hovering between 99.97 and 99.99-ranked on OPR for the last 3 years over a decent sample.

TBH, something felt off with his preflop 3bet, and my intention was to check-ship any flop where I had the smallest piece. This flop almost qualified but I chose to fold.

Poker Stars $150+$12 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t800/t1600 Blinds + t150 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t39324 M = 10.92
BTN: t61292 M = 17.03
SB: t36204 M = 10.06
BB: t53164 M = 14.77
Hero (UTG): t57622 M = 16.01
UTG+1: t165944 M = 46.10
MP1: t38569 M = 10.71
MP2: t17113 M = 4.75

Pre Flop: (t3600) Hero is UTG with J Q
Hero raises to t3628, UTG+1 raises to t9569, 6 folds, Hero calls t5941

Flop: (t22738) T 4 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t11111, Hero folds
03-05-2010 , 03:24 AM
I don't think your read justifies the call preflop, but if you really think he's FOS I think you should shove over the cbet...just seems really thin though.
03-05-2010 , 03:43 AM
I would fold preflop. I know it's the big stack, but you raised UTG and he reraised UTG+1. You have a below average UTG raising hand.
03-05-2010 , 05:14 AM
easy fold pre
03-05-2010 , 05:36 AM
You're under 40 BB's pre at these positions, I would never think to flat pre.
03-05-2010 , 06:27 AM
wouldnt mind your play/plan if it was HJ vs CO or something but UTG vs UTG+1 its FPS imo. fold to the 3-bet.
03-05-2010 , 09:14 AM
Yeah I think pre is awful here
03-05-2010 , 09:18 AM
min it pre, fold to 3bet.
03-05-2010 , 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejoe1337
Yeah I think pre is awful here
you mean opening pre or calling the reraise pre. and you dont have to say awful, it comes across kinda dick. know what i mean.
03-05-2010 , 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mench
you mean opening pre or calling the reraise pre. and you dont have to say awful, it comes across kinda dick. know what i mean.
Opening isn't too bad, but calling the 3ball is pretty bad

And yeah, sorry i'm a gwumpy panda today
03-05-2010 , 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejoe1337
Opening isn't too bad, but calling the 3ball is pretty bad

And yeah, sorry i'm a gwumpy panda today
no pwob, we are all gwumpy pandas sometimes
03-05-2010 , 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond18
You're under 40 BB's pre at these positions, I would never think to flat pre.
Can you elaborate on effective stack sizes changing relative to positions? I've never heard this theory.
03-05-2010 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
Can you elaborate on effective stack sizes changing relative to positions? I've never heard this theory.
What he implied -- that you need to be deeper to call a 3bet with QJs in EP than in LP -- makes perfect sense since both your and your opponent's ranges will differ greatly. It has nothing to do with effective stack sizes changing relative to positions.

EDIT: On the hand, just fold to the 3bet.
03-05-2010 , 11:06 AM
How strong a 'feeling' do I need to do anything other than fold? If I have a strong feeling, should I just be 4b/calling or 4bjamming? At what stack size does raise/calling become acceptable, or does the fact that I'm going to be OOP to a strong unknown player with Q-high mean that there's no stack size at which I should be calling the 3b pre?
03-05-2010 , 11:19 AM
I misread stack sizes for some reason I thought we were 50 BBs deep but Bond was somehow saying that in these positions 50 BBs = 40 BBs or something.
03-05-2010 , 11:56 AM
i think fold pre shove pre and shove flop are all pretty fine. altho i prob bitch out like u did when goin to shove flop without a flush redraw. dont u hate not following thru?

that's also why i stopped winning tourneys tho. just fold pre and try not to be annoyed about it, get a better read, try and have aces nexttime
03-05-2010 , 08:15 PM
Pre is okay we are getting a really good price, because he three bet so small and we have a hand that does pretty well vs. his range. If we were like 70k deep I would auto call here.
03-05-2010 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714
Pre is okay we are getting a really good price, because he three bet so small and we have a hand that does pretty well vs. his range. If we were like 70k deep I would auto call here.
that is pretty bad readless.
03-05-2010 , 10:14 PM
ur not deep enough to peel pre. so ye i can ez be lite here cos it looks superstrong to 3ball utg from utg+1 so ye he can be lite so of this. So from past knowledge of playing with villian 4ball or fold pre. prolly just fold pre cos meh w/e he bluffed u so wot
03-06-2010 , 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by siola
that is pretty bad readless.
Ur pretty bad readless.
03-06-2010 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz
How strong a 'feeling' do I need to do anything other than fold? If I have a strong feeling, should I just be 4b/calling or 4bjamming? At what stack size does raise/calling become acceptable, or does the fact that I'm going to be OOP to a strong unknown player with Q-high mean that there's no stack size at which I should be calling the 3b pre?
Even with your reads i don't like the flat here and don't think it is +Ev.

If you are planning on continuing in the hand and have that strong of a feeling and really are 100% sure hes full of BS then shipping pre is the best play imo.

However i dont really think getting into a BS war with another regular is the best way to go. I think we can wait for better hands and spots vs this vilan.
03-06-2010 , 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714
Pre is okay we are getting a really good price, because he three bet so small and we have a hand that does pretty well vs. his range. If we were like 70k deep I would auto call here.
I think 4betting him would be a better option rather than auto calling Qhigh oop vs a agressive reg tbh. I think we get owned pretty hard alot post flop and c/f alot of boards. Don't see how this is really +ev in the long run. If we were in pos then i like this idea alot better.

4betting him wins us money sometimes [when he folds] and if we really think hes weak this should be the best option. Also when called we are in control of the hand and can push good flops. Calling wins us no money, you can not win by calling. Obvo these are very general terms but i hope i have put my point accross as to why i prefer the 4bet.
03-06-2010 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
Ur pretty bad readless.
03-06-2010 , 01:35 PM
given reads vamo pf if "something feels off"
03-06-2010 , 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
I misread stack sizes for some reason I thought we were 50 BBs deep but Bond was somehow saying that in these positions 50 BBs = 40 BBs or something.
lol i'd say 50bbs = about 37 bbs here... or something

      
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