Villain has been making these fishy min raises as his usual. We are very shallow stacked and the prize payouts are like:

6k to 1st
3.4k to 2nd
2.8k to 3rd
2.2k to 4th literally.

So I'm trying to play for 1st now instead of being a sissy.

My plan is to flat and basically shove any flop. A stop n go I guess.

The flop seems very good for my equity vs even his legit min raising hands. Thoughts on the flop play? I know PF is very, very questionable and probably bad.

Full Tilt Poker Turbo Hundo No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t4000/t8000 Blinds + t1000 - 4 players - View hand 524692
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: t140016 M = 8.75
SB: t124678 M = 7.79
Hero (BB): t134376 M = 8.40
CO: t66930 M = 4.18

Pre Flop: (t16000) Hero is BB with T J
CO raises to t16000, 2 folds, Hero calls t8000

Flop: (t40000) 3 5 6 (2 players)
Hero bets t40000

shove pre if you think he's fishy. as played CRAI, you aren't folding out any legit hands & picking up cbets is nice.

Ehhhhh, I don't know if I agree with either of those. I think a preflop shove gets called more than your flop shove. Also, I don't like a c/rai because villain isn't deep enough to b/f this flop. Also, you obv. can't c/c. I like b/f and c/f best.

b/f > c/f > shove > c/rai

Also, fold pre.

I think you played it fine against fishy player. Folding pre is atrocious if he minraises a lot since we're getting 4:1 and shoving can't be great cause he never folds. Above two posts are weird. Villain has about pot behind, b/f or c/r or whatever is not an option.

He has like 51k left on the flop so betting even 20k would basically commit me, I think? Seems like this was a really bad spot to flat pre though. It's really ironic because I have an SNG background and an SNG flat here would just be terrible+atrocious.

fold pre. shove lots of hands. profit.

i think you took the worst possible line here.

folding pre is def not "attrocious", a minbet from this villains stacksize would usually indicate great strength. Not sure how often exactly villain has been raising and at what previous stacksizes but fold pre is fine/std IMO. Doubt a stop and go is the optimal play here, if villain has been waaay overactive shorthanded just shove pre IMO

Read the rest of my sentence, if his range is wide for this minraise then folding would be really bad getting 4:1.

I don't advocate stop 'n going, I'm just saying calling with great odds and continuing if we hit is a much better strategy than folding with these kind of hands.

This is close. It really depends on how often CO was raising and how aggressive he was postflop. If he was raising frequently like you said I think you took the best possible line.

A little trick in spots like this is to think awhile before donking the flop. If you bet the flop instantly it looks a lot like a stop n go - like you didn't even need to think about your hand before you pushed. If you hesitate for a bit and then bet a committing amount, it looks stronger - like you're deciding between a c/r and a bet.

easiest stop n go ever

Sometimes I read things here that make me think I know nothing about poker.

So we can profitably flat JTo oop for 12% of effective stacks because the direct odds are good?

And folding is really "atrocious?"

OP seems to indicate we are ahead of his range on both streets? We must be unless we're trying to multistreet bluff with 8bb, which would be suicide, right? Vs a tight player preflop becomes a trivial fold; if he's loose enough just get it in.

You would have to be drawing dead for b/f to be correct. c/f, why bother seeing a flop, as I said if he's loose enough to make a call preflop correct you should be ahead of his range now. Shoving only gets called by better hands, & folds out most worse ones.

Steve I think my bet would fold out AK, AQ, KQ, AKs, and other funky hands he might have min raised PF. But after seeing his hand (two Black Aces that I sucked out on), I didn't stop to think enough as to why a fish would min raise instead of just open shove. Pretty sure his range doesn't even include AK or JJ there and is just strictly QQ-AA.

I think pre folding is much better. Looking at the stacks, villain is the shortest by far - so you don't have a lot of leverage over him. He is also so short that I doubt you have any kind of significant FE at any point in the hand.

3 betting all in one of the other stacks would be a much better move.

Once you call, I think shoving flop is best.
I think Steve has a good point, in that shoving is mostly not going to fold out better hands (I don't think he is folding ace high) - but since there is a chance he is folding out some better hands (Q high or whatever), and whatever he has he has outs vs your hand and his pot odds to call are very good, my preference is to shove the flop vs check raise.

Just goes to show why minraising is the nuts in a lot of spots

+1 to soepgroente's posts.

Also, shoving pre doesn't really make any sense. We have 0 FE, <50% equity vs his range, and he's extremely likely to just stick it in on all flops. Call and then get it in on flops that we have correct equity is much much better.

Yet again, OP is giving the impression that villain has been minraising a lot, and if that's the case, then his range should include hands like 89o, 57s, 22, etc etc. so folding would be really terrible as we can probably decide which flops are good for our hand better than our opponent can and we're getting such a good prize to start with.

Obviously if this is a typical opponent that goes out the window since the minraise is going to be something really strong and we'll get into trouble on a lot of flops.

Think preflop is probably correct with immediate pot odds. Might not call with this hand deep, but negative implied odds are not that important here. Also, you are not far behind his range.

Don't like CRAI, as I don't think he cbet/folds this flop much. Pushing the flop is probably the best play, but don't think c/f is terrible.


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

488,070 games 0.031 secs 15,744,193 games/sec

Board: 3h 5h 6h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.060% 41.63% 01.43% 203160 7001.00 { JdTh }
Hand 1: 56.940% 55.51% 01.43% 270908 7001.00 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 96s+, 85s+, 75s+, 65s, 54s, 43s, A2o+, K7o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T9o }

Calling pre here is burning money Imo.

The guys got 67k when folded to in the CO at 4/8k w/ 1KA. 8bb!! and people wanna defend to probably what is a range of 2/3 hands and get it it on "good flops". Even if the guy was min raising his whole opening range earlier doesnt mean hes ever goin to be light in this specifc spot.

Hmm


Whats the point in stoving this range if he probably never has 95% of it.

Shud be more like.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

369,857,664 games 0.255 secs 1,450,422,211 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 84.252% 84.06% 00.19% 310916736 694728.00 { QQ+ }
Hand 1: 15.748% 15.56% 00.19% 57551472 694728.00 { JTo }

OP indicates villain was making a lot of these miniraises, so I wouldn't assume he only has QQ+. Some people might just push and then only miniraise QQ+, but that is not the information given.

Its the Turbo Hundo, I doubt giving villain any rational thought process is going to be optimal.

I rethought my position & WRT ICM folding now & opening a lot seems more profitable that getting into defendaments with teh fish.

how can you check raise a guy who's only bet post flop if you check to him is to cram all in?

Yeah I mean he was making fishy min raises (we were in the t18 table as well) but he recently got short stacked, so I would imagine it would change his range. I think ICM wise I basically made a pretty bad play. I'm trying not to be results oriented but the more I think about it I think this type of player is only min raising monsters here with an 8 bb stack.

Really, this hand's just so history dependent that we can't even comment on it without playing with you. I mean, had he raised at all with a stack under 12bb before? What did he do? If he hadn't opened a pot since he got short-stacked and you'd never seen him open-push, but he'd been min-raising when he was deeper than I think flatting in the BB is fine. I mean, maybe this guy's specific range was QQ+ for a min-raise, but based on the information you had, there might have only been a 20% chance that he had that tight of a range which would make the call fine.

If you'd seen him open-push at all with a similar stack and this was the first min-raise though, then I'd say this is a pretty trivial fold preflop.