I assume there is a good reason he suggests BBB and tbh I do not think it will be too boring for us initially. This program is an indefinite program, so maybe in 2 years it will look more like that Mike Robertson program or something...but I think it will work a lot better if we keep it as simple as possible for a cycle or two.

I'm guess I'm not sure why 5/3/1 needs more squat work. I mean, if it did, wouldn't he add it in there? My guess is that coming from SS (or maybe even TM) it feels that way? Or is there a reason that doing squats with 5/3/1 frequency somehow won't work properly?

That being said, I don't mind the idea of maybe doing box squats (or FS) on DL day instead of GMs (lord knows I get enough GM practice during squat day, meh).

Something I was wondering about.

Derrick Rose is prob my current favorite player, especially when he's healthy. I was watching him handle the ball and he's obv insanely talented. Especially with that deadly crossover that's really hard to defend.

But then I was thinking about it, I think he's listed at like 6' 4".

Now, would he be just as successful handling the ball in a game where everyone was between 5' and 6'?

It's certainly harder to defend a guard when you are a foot taller than him. I'm not great at ball handling, but if I was playing with a bunch of players who were all at least 6" taller than me, I would be a lot more successful, yeah?

Ehhh, it makes a difference but not as much of one as it seems you are thinking. Guys who are smaller tend to have ridic handles simply b/c they learn and play the game that way - and keeping the ball low to the ground synergistically helps with that.

Most guys guarding Rose are not 6" taller obv so yeah, centers have a harder time getting the ball from PGs than other PGs, but usually at that point you are going to go for the block anyway.

If you played with a bunch of guys 6" taller than you, you'd be F'd, b/c you likely don't have real PG skills of any sort (great handles, quick shot, good timing and ability to read the defense while dribbling the ball). Over time my guess is you'd have to get a lot better at dribbling though to help balance your height disadvantage (or get better at positioning and stuff).

Well, in the experience of most guys in H&F who have done 5/3/1 it needs a bit of tweaking. Like cha says, some of the assistance works he suggests (leg presses, leg curls, hanging leg raises) are bad for various reasons. His preferred 3/week template which means squatting every 9-10 days certainly didn't do much for my squats. Resident squat guru kidcolin recommends making adjustments akin to what I suggested iirc. I.e. get some extra squat work in. If there's one lift that needs extra work, it's the squat.

I think the Mike Robertson thing looks good, but imo it's not needed until you're a bit more advanced. You need to know your limits and body very well indeed. Powerlifter at my gym uses something like that based on programming from Mike Tuscherer (??).

lol at bolded

Are you suggesting that being 6 inches shorter would be an advantage...? Id have to totally disagree with that.

If you mean his ball handling skills would get better if he's shorter, that might possibly be true, but you would be giving up so much in terms of being able to drive, take contact, and finish. His arms would be so much shorter than now that he'd lose most of his moves. He would not be in the NBA if he were 6 inches shorter.

If he were playing in a league of 5 to 6 footers, he wouldn't be playing pg and just abuse his height advantage. He wouldn't be a good ball handler anymore, but he'd dominate even harder cause of size and strength and blocking.

Tldr; its never an advantage to be shorter

I assume JF is thinking being shorter helps you keep your dribble low - which I am sure is true. But that very minor advantage is obv hugely mitigated by the fact that you're shorter, which is a huge disadvantage in bball.

At some point if you're way taller than everyone else no matter how skilled you are it may be somewhat tricky to dribble through traffic. But ofc, that will be a pretty fun problem to have as you basically dominate ever other facet of the game.

bearz - injury update? You gonna be able to play in the playoffs? What if Melo gets the team to the second round?

I gotta admit ill be kind of disappointed if I don't get some kudos at my gym for comin through during the playoffs

I really would love to show up at your gym now and super troll you. I basically am 95% convinced you are a dead ringer for Lin no matter what you say, .

Also, are your calves okay? Hopefully the advice I gave you forgetting to mention not to roll hard on nerves didn't F anything up - rolling the muscles really should help if you can do it consistently and get good at finding the tight spots and relaxing into the ball.

4/23 log

Last pickup bball of the "season". Went 4-2 for an overall final record of 51 and 26 for a winning percentage of 66%.

I got on a team with two pretty good scorers, which was nice. The other two guys were a bit old and not super mobile - both could shoot, one quite well, but neither score much or play great D. It's not necessarily that they're lazy, they just seem old imo. Anyway, played all 6 games with this same team. We lost the first game pretty badly but were able to win 3 in a row after that.

The first game (and I believe 3rd and maybe 5th, involved a big guy who just seems to wreck havoc in the post. I guarded him obv but man I got completely winded and spent just guarding him (nevermind running up/down the court). It's frustrating but he actually hooks and shoves illegally a bit. But I held him to very minimal points only getting completely sealed once or twice where they were able to get the post pass to him and he scored super easily.

I even tried calling a charge on him but it didn't stick. I was gonna get hammered on that play anyway b/c they were still a bit in transition with a good passing angle and I could tell he was looking to seal me really deep. I couldn't front b/c there was a guy on the other wing wide open. So what I did is set up in the spot he'd want and he ran into me (not super hard but a charge imo). He complained and argued a bunch but since it wasn't going to be called I dno why. He said he played in college and "that'd never get called" although later he said "maybe it was a charge but you can't call that in pickup." Which apparently is true. But I still think it's super dumb, no one has given me 1 reason (let alone a good one) why it can't be called in pickup ball. Also, I only have so many tools vs. a guy like that who is taller, bigger and better than I am - taking away the charge is so frustrating!

Anyway, all that being said I am pretty sure I play close to if not the best D on him of anyone else and while I can't help out on D when guarding him, who cares - I've seen him score 6 our of the 8 total points with almost every shot being a layup or putback.

Overall I was really happy with my play and had fun. I'd love to see how I can play in better shape and I also am not going "full tilt" perhaps as I was. One point I was on the ground (collision ldo) and forgot I still can't do a pushup with my left hand so I tried getting up and then had to get up off of my forearm instead - one small skinny guy asked "wow, are you okay" and I was just wondering if anyone else was really getting hurt in the pickup league, lol.

I read all that stuff. Here are some of my ideas:

day 1
squat 5 3 1
RDL or KB swings or ghetto GHRs (dont neglect the posterior chain on squat day imo)
more leg work (could do box squat or FS or single leg stuff here)
can add more posterior chain stuff if time permits and you arent fried

day 2
bench 5 3 1
horizontal pull
weighted or banded pushups are a very good idea
face pulls

day 3
OHP 5 3 1
DL 5 3 1
vertical pull
FS or single leg (step ups, lunges, split squats, BSS, etc)
face pulls

OR

You could alternate to a 4 workout rotation, doing 3 workouts per week. I've done something like that for the past several months while concentrating primarily on the bench and its worked well for that. I think I could definitely squat more often, and I have added FS to my DL day recently.

OR

What I'm thinking about starting soon (maybe as soon as today) is do something like

5 3 1 DL
reverse hyper
FS
can add more posterior chain stuff if time permits and you arent fried
core work

5 3 1 bench
OHP (not 5 3 1 - something like 5 sets of 8 reps)
pull
pushups
pull
face pulls
core work

5 3 1 squat
reverse hyper
sadiv trap bar DL
core work

You could substitute GHR, pull throughs, RDLs, KB swings, etc for reverse hypers and sadiv TBDL. Core work is optional for me based on time and how I feel. I'll throw in all kinds of stuff like the exercises I had you doing on that core only workout.

I like doing more pulling & more posterior chain stuff than Wendler suggests.

Yeah, this is what Wendler recommends in his 5/3/1 book you sent me and what we're planning on. So instead of each cycle taking 4 weeks, it will take 5 weeks. From what you're recommending I'm thinking this is what we'll start with:

OHP day - OHP work sets, OHP sets at a lighter weight, assisted pullups/chins

DL day - DL work sets, DL at lighter weight, paused box squats

Bench day - Bench work sets, Bench sets at a lighter weight, DB rows

Squat day - LBBS work sets, LBBS at lighter weight, RDL or ghetto GHR

Two questions for you Cha:

1) Is it dumb to do box squats as assistance on DL days instead of front squats?

2) If we do assisted pullups/chinups, how many should we do? Wendler says "100 a week" or something. But other assistance exercises are 3 sets of 10 reps. 100 pullups/chinups will take forever to do as assistance even assisted unless I make it ridiculously easy to do them.

Yeah, as I mentioned, I want to keep this as simple to start with. I know I could be throwing in any or all of that core stuff you had me doing. I just don't want to spend more time on this. Extra time I spend on SMR tbh and think until later I'll continue to do that. At a certain point though I'll probably have diminishing returns on extra SMR.

Yeah, again, I'm trying to keep it simple for now so won't be adding in much extra pulling stuff.

Thanks for the advice! I think this will be a good program for a cycle and then I will look at potentially switching up some of the assistance. Don't worry, I'm sure at some point in the next couple of years I'll add in some of your crazy Mike Robertsonian adjustments to 5/3/1 .

1) I cant think of a reason not to, unless you start having issues doing it.

2) I dont have a strong opinion on this. If your body & schedule allow you do do 100 reps, go ahead. If you start getting problems in your arms or back or shoulders, maybe you're doing too much. It doesnt hurt to vary resistance, reps & sets workout to workout, so that might be a good thing to do here. Listen to your body though - change if you think this is causing problems.

Pay attention overall - if you arent doing enough pulling stuff and are doing too much pushing, you could get your upper body out of whack.

Yeah, I'll try to pay some attention. I guess I'll try to start us off with 30-50 pullups/chins. Tbh I may have to do something else instead b/c my "bad" shoulder and wrist both feel the strain when I tried a few the other day. My plan is to just be careful, do a bunch of low rep sets, and see what happens (aka do TONS of SMR the week afterwards, lol).

Single arm cable pulldowns will be a lot easier on your wrist & shoulder than chins.

Thanks, I'll switch to those if I have to abandon pullups. We all know pullups are awesome though so I love the idea of planning them into things. I never do them consistently if they are 'extra' and not part of my core programming.

Played some of the most demoralizing ball yesterday. My friend goes to a small college to finish some grad school stuff and I joined him at his gym and we wound up playing against a couple of guys on the school's team.

Everyone felt like Kevin Durant. 6'4+ guys that are quick and can shoot are just completely unstoppable and it reminds me that there's a really hard cap on the level of my game. With high school guys you can usually body them a bit, and with older guys you can use some speed, but damn these guys are beasts.

Yeah, I try to stay away from playing a full tier above my level. If a couple of the guys in 5v5 are like that I guess it's okay, but 2v2 - yikes!

At least HS players are usually timid and/or stupid.

4/25 log

5/3/1 OHP, week 1, cycle 1 (estimated starting 1rm of 107)

Note: I don't think I've done more than 20 pullups/chinups in a day so I tried to do sets of 3 reps and alternate pullup/chinup/neutral. So I supersetted throughout my whole workout with those...started out easy, not so easy near the end of the ~50 I did.

OHP warmups
45x5x2
57.5x3

OHP work sets
62.5x5
72.5x5
82.5x9 (estimated 106 1rm)

Assistance:
OHP 47.5x10x5
50 pullups/chins/neutral (over 16-19 sets I believe)

My shoulders actually feel pretty good today (some parts a bit tight but actually less messed up than normal, lol), which is what I was most worried about tbh.

This is the first workout in a year where my legs don't feel junky the next day and also is the "easiest" lifting day I've had in.....probably a year. Lol @ SS, .

(also, looks like I should start thinking about a log title change)

My g/f did:
45x8 as her "all-out" set and 55 "assistance" on the pullup machine for her pullup sets. (starting estimated 1rm of 55, 45x8 estimated at 53)

Ok, I wanna ask about screens.

As a player lacking as a strong offensive asset when both teams are pretty good, one of the ways I try and make up for it is by attempting to set screens. Even that is pretty one dimensional though.

I get it right every once in a while when I can time it just right, my teammate sees what I'm going to do and uses the screen nicely to blow by his defender (with my help) and take it to the rim. I LOVE when this works and the other team gets pissed due to the lack of help defense (which is common, anyway).

Most of the time, though, my screens aren't very effective. My teammate doesn't use it, the defender sees me coming or alerted by his teammates (as he should be), or the rhythm is just plain off. Is this something that I can work on and will come with practice? Do you think they should be used often?

Another one that I actually have never tried is a screen away from the ball. Like when the PG is bringing it up the court, and a 3 point shooter is down in the paint. I could go screen his defender and create a wide open shot for him while being in a good spot to rebound. This is obviously better if he has a quick shot.

I know I've ran into this type a screen before and it totally effs me up. It somehow messes my brain up to try and keep an eye on the ball, follow my defender AND try and fight past/through a screen. If it works well on me, it must be effective on the other end. Plus I mean, it's not like we set up any offense or plays or anything before the game starts.

And lastly, what's the deal with moving screens? I mean, this is a clear violation but I've never seen one called, and until the other day, never even really seen a blatant one. Here is what happened:

I had been completely shutting down my defender who was a pretty good finisher but not a great shooter. Before he even got the ball, this giant dude runs up to me, turns around so were facing the same direction and kinda does this weird box-out/screens and runs all the way to the baseline with me with his arms behind him. It was the only time I'd ever seen something like that and had no idea wtf to do. I mean, it was such blatant illegal defense I wasn't prepared. And this guy DEF knew what he was doing, I've seen him pull angles out there before so it didn't really surprised me. Just warn him not to do it and call it the next time?

I think one can get a lot better at screens. They are tough in pickup b/c you aren't running an offensive set (I've never run an offensive set but I imagine picks would work way better b/c they are actually part of the set) so the guy with the ball may not ever use picks, may not be ready to use it, may not execute it well.

If you set a pick, for sure try to set it perpendicular to the defensive guy's shoulder - this makes it hard to get around, I see a lot of lazy picks that are kind of behind a guy and it's easy to slide over such a pick. Although sometimes I set a front pick to set up a long-range shot (I love doing this in transition) and of course that involves just stopping in front of someone, not perpendicular to them at all.

You should also be constantly screening away from the ball, especially on the baseline so your teammates can flash to the other side of the rim down low. Also pinning a defender so a guy can break free to go shoot a 3 will work well too.

On defense you need to anticipate these types of screens and get more used to either running through them (if the offense isn't set, F them imo, although I almost hurt a guy running him over - altho I didn't see the screen at all) or avoiding them: deciding quickly whether to go over or under...or sometimes play off your man so you can easily run around one. One guy who plays in the pickup game I'm in is huge (just huge) so all he does really is set moving screens and it's sometimes impossible for me to get around (he is really really large).

As for moving screens, yeah, I don't call them (no one really does) but if it's bad and someone gets shoved or knocked over it will get called. I also will warn guys if they keep setting moving screens (same with 3 seconds on offense) and just say something like "that is another moving screen, I'll start calling that" although I never start calling it.

Tbh, in pickup you should just set moving screens, there's no reason not to really b/c they don't get called - hell, they rarely get called in the NBA. Also I guess there is a difference between a hugely moving screen and a little shuffler here or there where the guy setting the screen is technically not completely set but getting set (not completely moving when the screen is set).

If a guy is moving and screening you, initiate contact and then I think you can call it if it's basically boxing you out of the play. Sometimes running down court I'll kind of get in front of someone to mess them up but if I just continued to do it as they tried to run through me, it's a foul on me and I'll likely get hurt (as they'll be running through me). I think once some guy did this to me essentially and I tried to run around *hard* - he was pissed but I told him he was setting a clear moving screen and not to do that if he didn't want to be knocked down.

Oh, one last thing - when setting good screens I try to lean into them a bit (not with my elbow or shoulder or something dirty) simply b/c a good screen will catch someone off guard and it's very easy to get knocked over or knocked back and then you're off balance. So remember to bend your knees a bit and get your weight shifted forwards!

4/27 log

5/3/1 DL, week 1, cycle 1 (estimated starting 1rm of 293)

DL work sets
175x5
200x5
225x9 (estimated 1rm: 289)

Assistance:
DL: 135x8x5

Supersetted with:

Box Squats: 105x10x5

My g/f (starting 1rm: 163)
125x10 (1rm: 167)
DL: 75x8x5 + box squat 45x10x5

4/28 log

Basketball drills - some dribbling, mainly shooting.

4/29 log

5/3/1 Bench, week 1, cycle 1 (estimated starting 1rm: 169)

Bench work sets:
100x5
115x5
130x10 (1rm: 173)

Assistance:
Bench 75x10x5 + DB rows 45x10x5

G/f (starting 1rm: 79)
60x13 (1rm: 90)
Bench 34x10x5 + DB rows 15x10x5

5/1 log

5/3/1 LBBS, week 1, cycle 1 (estimated 1rm: 276)

LBBS work sets:
165x5
190x5
210x8 (1rm: 261)

Assistance:
LBBs 125x10x5 + RDL 105x8x5

G/f (starting 1rm: 158)
120x10 (160)
LLBS 70x10x5 + RDL 50x10x5

5/3 log

5/3/1 OHP, week 2, cycle 1 (estimated 1rm: 276)

OHP work sets:
67.5x3
77.5x3
87.5x8 (109)

Assistance:
OHP 47.5x10x5 + 50 pullup/chin/neutral

G/f (starting 1rm: 55)
45x10 (60)
24x10x5 + 45 assisted pullups 10x5

5/5 log

5/3/1 DL, week 2, cycle 1 (estimated 1rm: 293)

DL work sets:
185x3
210x3
240x9 (309)

Assistance:
DL 135x8x5 + box squats 105x10x5

G/f (starting 1rm: 163)
135x10 (180)
72.5x8x5 + box squat 45x10x5

5/6 log

Basketball drills - mainly shooting.

5/8 log

5/3/1 Bench, week 2, cycle 1 (estimated 1rm: 169)

Bench work sets:
107.5x3
122.5x3
137.5x8 (171)

Assistance:
Bench 75x10x5 + DB rows 45x10x5

G/f (starting 1rm 79)
65x10 (87)
Bench 34x10x5 + DB rows 15x10x5

5/10 log

5/3/1 LBBS, week 2, cycle 1 (estimated 1rm: 276)

LBBS work sets:
175x3
200x3
225x9 (289) - with belt

Assistance:
LBBS 125x10x5 + RDL 105x8x5

G/f (starting 1rm 158)
127.5x10 (170)
LBBS 70x10x5 + RDL 50x8x5

Re: screens

ideally you'd want to set a screen so that the defender cannot go under it (or is able to drop back and meet the dribbling player on the other side of the screen) so if you are setting a screen at the top of the key, you'd probably want your back to face the corner.

very few players in pickup games know how to utilize ball screens, they often do not set up the on ball defender, lazily go off the screen, and/or go off the screen way too late so that that the defense adjust. talk to your teammates about what you want them to do, or can do.


two situations where off ball screens tend to be really effective in pickup are cross screens in the post or back screens for a player who just passed the ball from the perimeter.

for the cross screen, get a big to start on the weakside block and from the strong side, race under the hoop and screen for him coming towards the ball. this is only really effective if you have a good big player who your teams will actually throw the ball to down low.

for the back screen, as soon as someone passes from the perimeter, start waving for them to cut to the hoop as you screen his defender. typically the cutter's defender will not see it coming and get hung up on the screen. you must make eye contact and wave your teammate to come through, otherwise they'll typically just stand there and not use the screen.

Stewie - I agree with everything you just said. Even setting cross screens or back screens don't work super well in pickup unless your teammates are paying attention. I set more post screens than I care to count, while motioning for my teammates to flash to the other side of the basket and only like 3 guys automatically realize what's going on.

5/12 log

5/3/1 OHP, week 3, cycle 1 (estimated 1rm: 107)

Work sets:
72.5x5
82.5x3
92.5x6 (107.5) - /w belt

Hmm, not really sure why but OHP felt kinda hard today, my g/f also didn't put up any sort of big numbers. Not really worried about it, it seems with 5/3/1 some days something big gets put up and some days we undershoot a bit. My technique felt pretty good the whole time though but my "bad" shoulder felt tight and not great - I haven't been SMRing it like I used to.

Assistance:
OHP 47.5x10x5
51 pullups/chins/neutral grip - sets of 3, rotating grip

G/f (55 1rm)

47.5x6 (55) - she did 10 reps of 45 lbs a week ago, which is what I'm talking about above.
OHP 24x10x5 + pullups 45 assistancex10x5

Front Delt Man, fighter of the Lat Man!