I think you are waaaaay over thinking this bro....

I assume this is a troll but it is a complete misinterpretation of what Starrett means (or what I mean when talking about torque and hip stability. To the point that it's a silly troll imo.

The stronger one's muscles are, the more torque and stability one can create in a joint. However, if I can't produce this torque and stability in my hip efficiently or properly, not only will it not matter as much how strong I am, but it certainly won't help me get even stronger since I can't handle higher weights and whatever muscles aren't strong enough (b/c I'm not creating torque properly) will lag behind.

I think I know how to fix your issue, but you probably need direct coaching for it to work because you are doing stuff wrong.

I'd be interested in specifically what you think can be done to fix it, since I fight knee cave a decent amount on my later work set reps.

I'm deloading this week and won't be able to make it to your place tonight anyway.

How about starting next week I move squatting to Wednesday and squat when I'm at your place. Would you be up for that? I would love to do any programming you recommend. The only thing I'd suggest is that you consider the merit of me doing x-band side steps as a warmup and banded squats either during squat warmups or before the actual squatting. Also at some point single leg squatting may be something helpful to work in.

But honestly, my thinking is pretty uptight so I'm sure whatever programming I try to come up with will be a huge cluster**** of FPS.

I'm not sure what programming I want to do after this week for deadlift or bench but hopefully I figure something out while I deload. I feel very burned out at this point though.

Can you air squat with knees tracking? Can you do the sit in a squat, toes flared, jam your elbows into your legs to drive them out, and then stand up with knees out? Congrats, you can squat. Now add load until that starts to feel hard to hold. Slowly build from there.

Also please go read rudikulous's log. I posted maybe the most important part of SS regarding knees out.

Lengthy article from Bret Contreras. Includes pointers to diagnose deficiencies.

http://bretcontreras.com/knee-valgus...lexion-drills/

Le poste en question.

It was most definitely a troll post, which is why I followed up with what I meant. The bolded is exactly what you are lacking, the strength to create torque/stability. Starlett's method is a bandaid on the problem, not a solution to the problem. Something is weak, causing your knees to cave. Get whatever it is stronger and the knee cave will go away. Starlett gives you false strength in that area by setting up differently, but the weakness is still there. Once you get to a point in your training that this false strength no longer works, the knee cave comes back. This is why I think it worked for you in the beginning, but now it no longer works (you are getting to a point where the false strength is no longer solving the knee cave issue).

This explains it well. I would prefer you properly address the lack of strength to keep you knees out in a Ripp-esque way than to use a setup that gives you a false sense of having the problem beat.

Skeletor, I still think you are misapplying something to Starrett or his setup that simply isn't true. None of what he's talking about is a substitute for strength or any sort of bandaid. His whole mission is to help individuals and coaches understand how to identify, maintain, and improve stability for normal movement patterns. At least, that's what I've always believed. I don't think there is any other sort of agenda. The setup he recommends for squats is just a setup. He doesn't care if you follow it or not but it's designed to try and help the individual create and maintain hip stability (and shoulder stability) so there is proper spine alignment and a good squat.

I tried that setup. It seemed to help. Something went wrong so now I believe I was mistaken on how much it helped. Without video we're all guessing as to what actually happened.

I used to believe changing my setup could fix my issue. But I think I was wrong, my issue is independent of any reasonable setup, I should be able to use any of them and not have my knees comes in. Perhaps after I fix it I may investigate whether a slightly different stance seems to help me squat but I'm going to ignore that until then.

I'm going to go back to SS style squatting not b/c I think it is or isn't superior to Kstar's or other reasonable setups but because I think it is a better documented system and will be easier for me to follow.

At some point there will be a magical switch that will go off in my head/body relationship where I will know what the correct feeling is for keeping my hips stable. And I will be able to replicate that again and again. And that work will then make whatever is too weak, stronger. And then I will make the gainz.

Bulk. AFAIK none of our fat friends ITF have any problems with knee cave.

I have no idea what his agenda is, but I'm skeptical of his approach to the problem. My feeling on the whole issue is that he identified an issue (knee cave), didn't address the actual problem (lack of strength in some muscle/muscles that usually prevent knee cave), and found an end route around the base problem (different setup that reduces those muscles being involved) that sometimes works. I call this a bandaid solution as it isn't addressing the issue but slapping something in place that hides the problem and allows you to move forward.

I think his setup addresses stability fine (I don't like it, especially putting pressure on joints that isn't necessary), especially when the weights aren't super challenging. Once you get into weights that are more challenging, his setup no longer works because the base issue (lack of strength in some muscle/muscles that usually prevent knee cave) has not been fixed. This may be why it worked for you at first, but it no longer works for you. I'm not sure if the SS setup is appropriate for you, but as you said: "I think it is a better documented system and will be easier for me to follow." I think it is a great place for you to start and hopefully someone on the SS forum can figure out a way to properly fix the issue, which I don't think we can here on this forum.

Hunh? Starrett never diagnosed my issue or provided me with a solution. Have you read Supple Leopard or know who he actually is? I have no actual relationship with him. I simply tried the setup from Supple Leopard and trying to think of my issue as one of creating torque rather than one of "knees out" would be helpful.

I still think it's more helpful than what I thought before, which was simply that I was weak and couldn't keep my knees "out". I have a much better idea of what areas are actually involved in creating the proper stability for my knees and also what structural issues I have that may be at play (flat feet).

I know you mean well, but this is pretty much the exact opposite of what yugo needs. He needs to simplify, and this article is like 100 new things to try out. And maybe some will work.

But unless there's some major structural issue going on, literally all you need is to squat. You don't need special exercises. You don't need 20 mins of directed SMR before lifting. You just need to lift right.

kc,

Let's wait until he gets exact measurements of his ankle mobility during three different lunar phases before we pass harsh judgement.

I haven't read supple leopard, but have read his online stuff and seen videos of his. I know who he is (Crossfit San Fran and MobilityWOD.com) and that he has never diagnosed you. I am talking about using his setup as a general approach to solving stability issues, in your case knee cave. I think his method over complicates things which are usually just solved by doing the movement correctly and getting stronger. I have a feeling the bolded is the issue and will take time and focus to fix it.

I agree with Cha. The problem is weak glutes. Weak cottage cheesy glutes.

What about unequal glute activation? My Bulgarian Dumbell split squats are easier with my left leg and coincidentally I can contract that glute better and coincidentally I bust my right lower back only when I squat.

All this stuff is super complicated, lifting weights really is at its infancy. Another 100 years and there will be much better info. I hope you figure out man. You have no pain so this is nothing. You can build huge legs with front squats, split squats, zerchers, leg press, etc etc.

I know deep inside you would like to compete. Show the family the Yugoslavian has heart and bigballz. It's going to be hard as fack without a trainable back squat. I feel your pain bro, but I really do.

It's just brutal man. You can't bench, you get pain at 200. You can't squat, it's crooked. But look your 385 deadlift looked okay for a max effort. And look at those big old tricepticons. KC's got legs man but his upperbody looks like it was literally taken from the pillsbury doughboy.

You will be fine bro. You are a chinning savant. Who hits 16 at 190? And you hardly even chin. Shiet man I don't think I can hit that at 164.

sup

You still coming to Mohegan you ****ing bean? I will backbreak you!

I am thinking October. I had a savage upperbody workout in evergreen, co yesterday. Damn weights were flying. I think it's the elevation. I saw Khalyn the other day, but I didn't even say hi and he was busy getting a two hour massage at the tables. Probably wants to squat in his dungeon. No way. I am hiding from all S&F squatters. Definitely going to PM EV when I head to AC. 15 sets of arms? Sweet.

I will be in Vegas starting on Thursday 18 September through that Sunday. I need to squat while I am there. You should stop over in Vegas and squat with me. Since the Mr. Olympia is in town there should be enough man-meat hanging out that J-Dock might be tempted to make the drive.

Your wife dances better than you squat. Also, it doesn't quite have enough energy for a working set, but I am digging that song and think it is a solid choice for a warmup set.

Sorry Skel,

I have kinda moved on from the 300 lb steroid monster look. I am kinda more into a leaner (but still swoll) look, i.e. the actor who played Superman in Man of Steel.



And obviously if I lived in Alaska a trip to Vegas to look at good looking people would be worth it, but I am only 20 minute drive from WeHo so no need to go IMO.

Dont forget to take into account the gravitational fluctuations from the Earth's rotation...

Sorry if I'm late to the party.

Question: What exactly is the problem?

Edit: Just watched the Yugowife vid.

Awesome!